A Challenge to Jeremy Walker
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07-06-2014, 08:09 PM
A Challenge to Jeremy Walker
I would very much like to debate with you. I assert that there is no evidence for theism. Care to oppose me?

Never let yourself believe that there are no errors in your perception, or that your perspective will not be improved if you identify and correct those flaws. -Aron Ra
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09-06-2014, 11:57 AM
RE: A Challenge to Jeremy Walker
(07-06-2014 08:09 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  I would very much like to debate with you. I assert that there is no evidence for theism. Care to oppose me?

If my schedule permits, I would be delighted. I will get back with you as soon as possible.
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10-06-2014, 11:57 PM
RE: A Challenge to Jeremy Walker
Sounds fine to me. I don't have a set of rules to follow for debate but I do have a few preferences if you are agreeable.

1. I don't like to leave points unanswered or unexplained. If you feel that I haven't answered a question I would be willing to explain my answer again until we come to an understanding, although not necessarily an agreement. I hope I can rely on the same patience from you given the reverse.

2. It doesn't really matter to me whether one of us changes our mind or not. I just want an opportunity for us both to fully express our opinions and show the community here at TTA who we are and what we stand for. That said, I am willing to change my mind if you convince me otherwise.

3. I don't mind rough language, insults, jabs, or other rudeness. Play rough if you want to, just make sure you have an actual argument to go with the verbal attacks. Reading nothing but insults and bad language is of no use to anyone.

4. I am not a scientist and I don't think I am assuming to much when I say I don't think you are either. Let's stick to what we know based on well established facts when it comes to asserting evidence on scientific subjects. I hope to never see the dreaded "studies have shown". It is so much more interesting and full of substance to have an actual citation and it keeps us from making things up completely. Obviously some things are common knowledge and can be asserted without citations so I won't get picky when it comes to them.

5. Either of us can end the debate at any time without any complaint from me. This is voluntary after all. Just let me know if you want it to stop early.

6. It doesn't matter to me how often we post here, just as long as we do regularly. We both have a life to live outside the computer. Unless you say otherwise I will just assume that eventually you will respond to my last post.

I would like the framework of the debate to be Atheism or no belief in the supernatural VS. Theism, specifically your beliefs (As far as I know Christian right?). It would really help for the sake of clarity if we both made opening statements of what we are/what we believe or don't believe. That way we can be clear about what we are debating here and why it matters to us. We can argue about the burden of proof or evidence if you like, but as long as we both give our reasons for our beliefs (or lack thereof) I will be satisfied.

How does all of that sound?

Never let yourself believe that there are no errors in your perception, or that your perspective will not be improved if you identify and correct those flaws. -Aron Ra
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12-06-2014, 08:37 AM
RE: A Challenge to Jeremy Walker
I see nothing in what you have written that I completely disagree with. In fact, for the most part, I am in agreement.

Did you want to formally debate me or engage in an open discussion?
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12-06-2014, 04:05 PM
RE: A Challenge to Jeremy Walker
(12-06-2014 08:37 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  I see nothing in what you have written that I completely disagree with. In fact, for the most part, I am in agreement.

Was there a point on which you only slightly disagreed? If so, could you tell me your concern?

(12-06-2014 08:37 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Did you want to formally debate me or engage in an open discussion?

Although I understand the question I am unfamiliar with the rules of formal debate. Even if I were to look them up, it would depend upon what style of debate we wanted to have. I think I would prefer an open discussion format, but if you have a set of rules you like I would be interested in hearing them.

Never let yourself believe that there are no errors in your perception, or that your perspective will not be improved if you identify and correct those flaws. -Aron Ra
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12-06-2014, 04:45 PM
RE: A Challenge to Jeremy Walker
I will go ahead and give you a statement of my beliefs and then allow you to give yours. How's that?

Disclaimer:

I am not engaging you to convince you or convert you of anything or to anything. I am engaging you because you have politely and respectfully extended the friendly invitation to dialogue and am grateful for the opportunity.
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12-06-2014, 10:36 PM
RE: A Challenge to Jeremy Walker
Sounds fine to me.

I am an agnostic atheist anti-theist. I take the position that there is no god and nothing else supernatural, that they are myths and legends with mankind as their authors. I take this position by way of a lack of good or conclusive evidence for the supernatural.

I take the position of anti-theism because I consider religion to be harmful to people, and because I would never wish for it to be true even if there were better evidence for it. I consider religion at the very least an excuse for, and at the most the direct cause of, atrocities, cruelties, horrors, and immoral acts the world over throughout all of history.

Never let yourself believe that there are no errors in your perception, or that your perspective will not be improved if you identify and correct those flaws. -Aron Ra
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13-06-2014, 06:53 AM
RE: A Challenge to Jeremy Walker
I will post the Nicene Creed as a concise statement of my beliefs.



We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried. On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father. With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets. We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

Note: The word "catholic" with a lower case 'c' does not mean the Roman Catholic Church, but the universal Christian Church as a whole.
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16-06-2014, 01:25 PM
RE: A Challenge to Jeremy Walker
Have you always believed as you do now?

Never let yourself believe that there are no errors in your perception, or that your perspective will not be improved if you identify and correct those flaws. -Aron Ra
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16-06-2014, 05:10 PM
RE: A Challenge to Jeremy Walker
(16-06-2014 01:25 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  Have you always believed as you do now?

No sir.

You?
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