A Christian girl with Down syndrome may face death in Pakistan.
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23-08-2012, 11:50 PM
RE: A Christian girl with Down syndrome may face death in Pakistan.
(20-08-2012 08:22 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Thread merged. To make for easier reading, Anthony's original post is copied.

This story makes me sick. while I am grateful that I live in a country where I am free to chose what I want to believe or not believe this simple reality for most of us isn't available all over the world.

This 11-12 year old girl is facing death just because she didn't know any better and all because of religion.

It makes me ask myself would I be an atheist if I could be killed for it? very provoking subject.

http://www.news.com.au/world/downs-syndr...6453743491

I didn't get to read it, since the story is already deleted. If I could be killed for my atheist beliefs, I would still be an atheist. I can say though, that if your government says all atheists will be rounded up and killed it is all the excuse I need to start a revolt by killing believers. If the war I start is won by me, then write the history books and they were the terrorists. If they win then I am the terrorist. A little food for thought.
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24-08-2012, 07:05 AM
RE: A Christian girl with Down syndrome may face death in Pakistan.
Quote:I can say though, that if your government says all atheists will be rounded up and killed it is all the excuse I need to start a revolt by killing believers.

That's.... that's some scary shit right there.
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24-08-2012, 08:42 AM
RE: A Christian girl with Down syndrome may face death in Pakistan.
(23-08-2012 08:53 PM)Ghost Wrote:  If the person disagrees with what's going on in the US then they're not wagging their finger AT Pakistan, they're wagging it at the issue and all of the countries that are a part of it. Which is fine. My issue is with people who act like their shit don't stink.
And who exactly is doing that? That's the issue I'm having with the first post from you in this thread that I replied to. You started out criticizing the US for doing this, in your view, but where did that come from? Were you replying to someone in this thread, just speaking off the top of your head from general awareness, or what?

(23-08-2012 08:53 PM)Ghost Wrote:  All you're really arguing for is that the US is less awful. What is that actually worth?
Actually, I was saying that it seems this should be your point of view because you don't agree with capital punishment at all. Personally, I think there are situations where capital punishment makes sense and so I don't find the US to be awful at all.

(23-08-2012 08:53 PM)Ghost Wrote:  
Quote:I agree with you, but find it interesting that you then contradicted that assertion in your own statements. You spoke of the entire US with respect to anyone in it wagging their finger at Pakistan. It is far from everyone in the US who favors capital punishment (there are about 40% who don't) so aren't you just holding the entire US accountable for the actions of only some?
No. This is one hell of a stretch.
Not really, but it's interesting that you would see it that way. Cool

(23-08-2012 08:53 PM)Ghost Wrote:  This is an example of attributing things to single determinants. Nothing is caused by one thing. When it comes to this sort of thing, there are always multiple determinants at work. The single determinant argument is the greatest weapon of the extremist and the demagogue. It is to be resisted with great vigour.
I don't see where you get that out of what I said. I agree there are multiple determinants - in fact, that's quite obvious. I did say it's a detail in a larger issue - which means a detail of many details. Obviously, the matter is a complex issue that stretches way beyond this one isolated incident and this one country.

(23-08-2012 08:53 PM)Ghost Wrote:  As for blaming the leaders, the leaders of Pakistan are the ones trying to review this particular case. The police had no interest in arresting her but felt they had to for her own safety.
Well, that's fine that they are reviewing it, but as long as the law exists, it's the responsibility of the leadership to do something about it. I'm talking about the ultimate "buck stops here" responsibility. The responsibility truly lies with the citizens, the culture, each country involved, international relations, etc. in addition to the leadership. But the leadership must be the catalyst for facilitating the change.

(23-08-2012 08:53 PM)Ghost Wrote:  The problem with turning our eyes to Pakistan and screaming "it's the fault of religion/stupidity/angry mobs/the leadership/etc..." is that we're not actually identifying the root causes in their complexity, we're just flapping our gums in a nonconstructive way. If we really want to get rid of a problem we sit down, we talk, we look at the issue, and come up with positive measures to effect concrete change. We don't just say, "You're a bunch of stupid poopie faced dumb heads." It's entirely possible to be reviled by the situation and not go off half-cocked. I am reviled by the situation. But I'd much rather see an international movement designed to help Pakistan address the cornucopia of problems that buttress this issue than watch a gang of yokels spew uneducated vomit everywhere.
Again, who exactly is doing this? More specifically, who is doing this without recognizing the larger issues?

(23-08-2012 08:53 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Speaking out against atrocities and offering Kellog's Pop Tart simplistic reasons for why the atrocity is occurring are two completely different things.
Again, who is doing this? This seems to be the main thrust of your points, but I don't know who you're addressing except originally you said "Americans" (or maybe it was "America"). But where did that come from?

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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24-08-2012, 09:47 AM
RE: A Christian girl with Down syndrome may face death in Pakistan.
Hey, Impulse.

All of your answers can be found on page one.

As for the rest, we can agree to disagree.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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24-08-2012, 11:52 AM
RE: A Christian girl with Down syndrome may face death in Pakistan.
Ghost,

I'm fine with agreeing to disagree, but if the answers were obvious on page 1, I never would have posted my first reply to you in this thread. Consider

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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02-09-2012, 09:13 AM
RE: A Christian girl with Down syndrome may face death in Pakistan.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-19454739

An update on this issue. It seems to be confirmed that the burnt pages from the Koran were planted there, as I suspected in the first place:

Near Wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-19315210

Here's the story from the BBC, where I originally saw it. This stuff makes me crazy as well. While I was at work today, I was thinking about how weird it would be, to be so crazy about a book, that you couldn't handle anyone who didn't take it seriously, or treat it respectfully. I also wonder if the girl would even realize what was going on. It doesn't really seem to me to be something that a person with Down Syndrome would really do. Why wander around with some pages from the Koran in a bag? Why did anyone even look in the bag in the first place? It makes me wonder if perhaps it was a plant/fabrication, in order for some people to get an excuse to murder some other people.
*bold added to emphasize

So now the Imam is facing blasphemy charges, which I still disagree with. I think that there should be some charge for planting false evidence, or besmirching the girl, however blasphemy laws are STILL bullshit, and this really doesn't help anything.

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02-09-2012, 09:40 AM
RE: A Christian girl with Down syndrome may face death in Pakistan.
The Imam did it!





Clearly that backbiter was not familiar with Johnny Cash.





Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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02-09-2012, 09:55 AM (This post was last modified: 02-09-2012 10:05 AM by Marco Krieger.)
RE: A Christian girl with Down syndrome may face death in Pakistan.
Hm... to make a shot to actually solve the problem... maybe we should raise money to buy her out.
If i understand the whole islam-woman-thing right, she is a girl after all, wich meens she is like a chair or carpet.
Lets get to the local authoritys and see how good bakschisch works.

No, just try to wrote my personal frustration's away.
And afterall they seem at last be so much reasonable to find out whats going on.
Hope the mullah/imam don't play the "she forced me to do that" card, like the RC's do in the molestation-cases.

If atheism is a religion, then not playing football is an Olympic discipline.
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