A Christian's response to"An atheist's critique of the Bible
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19-06-2014, 02:39 PM
RE: A Christian's response to"An atheist's critique of the Bible
(19-06-2014 12:52 PM)kim Wrote:  
(18-06-2014 08:02 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  ---
I will wait for him to address this.
---

Well, I understand how you guys like to wait around for your Christs to show up but, this was written a couple of years ago and Buddy hasn't been to visit for quite a while. Besides, it's already been published. Drinking Beverage

AND it was meant to be as humorous as anything else. Wanker obvously has no sense of humor. Besides being buried so deep in his Presuppositional Delusional Fantasies, he's also a boring humorless Church Lady. Be glad you don't have to live with anyone like that.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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19-06-2014, 02:44 PM
RE: A Christian's response to"An atheist's critique of the Bible
(19-06-2014 02:39 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  ...
Be glad you don't have to live with anyone like that.

That's something worth praying over Yes

It's hard to imagine living with that level of constant: Facepalm

It makes me wonder which would suffer more erosion, the face or the palm... or would they equally suffer permanent damage over time? Consider

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19-06-2014, 02:46 PM
RE: A Christian's response to"An atheist's critique of the Bible
(19-06-2014 02:44 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(19-06-2014 02:39 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  ...
Be glad you don't have to live with anyone like that.

That's something worth praying over Yes

It's hard to imagine living with that level of constant: Facepalm

It makes me wonder which would suffer more erosion, the face or the palm... or would they equally suffer permanent damage over time? Consider

to say nothing of the TBE (traumatic brain injury) Weeping

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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19-06-2014, 03:00 PM
RE: A Christian's response to"An atheist's critique of the Bible
(19-06-2014 12:43 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Jeremy,

I was going to pick apart all your points one by one because they're ridiculous.

But...

If your omnipotent gawd had wanted to communicate something to us either directly or through inspired works, this thread wouldn't exist because every one of us would already understand gawd's meaning. An omnipotent being wouldn't fail. That's all that really matters so your thread is moot.

I really like that sentence "An omnipotent being wouldn't fail."
I think truly that says it all right there.

When you look at the world and you see a failure to provide food for hungry children or when you see a failure to provide healthy drinkable water that is not riddled with disease or parasites, then you have to admit that an omnipotent being wouldn't fail, therefore one doesn't exist.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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19-06-2014, 04:35 PM
RE: A Christian's response to"An atheist's critique of the Bible
(19-06-2014 07:09 AM)morondog Wrote:  Jeremy, the fact that even a mild parody of the Bible gets such serious attention from you shows the depth of your fears Wink Relax my brother. If the Bible really is as good as you say it is then it'll stand on it's own merits, will it not? If God really intends for someone to get the message then surely it doesn't need an interpreter - namely you.

The Bible does stand on its own merits. This is no way makes apologetics impertinent.
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19-06-2014, 04:37 PM
RE: A Christian's response to"An atheist's critique of the Bible
(19-06-2014 12:11 AM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  I know this is "a Christian's critique of an atheist's critique of the bible", but I was hoping this could take on more of a Q&A structure. I asked this question in another thread, and I burning with curiosity. I have very seldom heard a christian address passages in the bible, and I have never heard them address it intelligently, so I am very interested to hear what you have to say about these passages. For the record, I am totally willing to except genesis as a metaphor. It is not where most of my problems lie.

(15-06-2014 08:34 PM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  How is this to be interpreted?


Is this literal?


What is the figurative language in this passage?







Up until this point you have refused to address scripture, or danced around the topic. Seeing as how I have been trying to find a satisfying answer to these questions for years, I am eagerly awaiting your response.

Start a new thread or PM me. I correspond with several members here through PM and find it to be more conducive than communicating in an open public forum.
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19-06-2014, 04:46 PM
RE: A Christian's response to"An atheist's critique of the Bible
(19-06-2014 08:14 AM)Drunkin Druid Wrote:  Seriously man.. Who the fuck are you trying to convince here?

I find what I do here rewarding and fulfilling. I would find it thus even if no one here ever agreed with anything I said.

I am not here to convince the dogmatic irreligious of anything. Such people's minds are already made up.



(19-06-2014 08:14 AM)Drunkin Druid Wrote:  Tossing around your ridiculous fantasies hoping they will convince your intellectual superiors?

Saying the Bible is comprised of ridiculous fantasies no more makes it so than me saying God is real makes Him so. And in view of the abundance of ad hominem attacks and lack of engagement with my arguments, I would not say that those here who resort to such means are my intellectual superiors.


(19-06-2014 08:14 AM)Drunkin Druid Wrote:  You probably came here thinking "I'll show those stupid atheists."

Not at all. I do not think anyone here is "stupid" at all.


(19-06-2014 08:14 AM)Drunkin Druid Wrote:  You might think we are hopeless and without purpose and that you can herd us into a flock but you'll find no slaves here.

I think no one here is hopeless or without purpose either. Nor do I think I can herd you into a flock.

As far as being slaves, a man is a slave to whatever he serves, honors, and obeys. We are all slaves to something or someone, for we all serve something or someone.

(19-06-2014 08:14 AM)Drunkin Druid Wrote:  Or is it you that needs convincing? Are you here because deep down you are aware that you are a slave, property of antiquated ideal? Perhaps you desire freedom? If this is the case you have come to the right place...

I am a slave. I am a bondservant of Christ Jesus. I have traded a cruel taskmaster for the Lover of My Soul who inspires me to love with the love He has placed within me.
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19-06-2014, 05:16 PM
RE: A Christian's response to"An atheist's critique of the Bible
(19-06-2014 12:43 PM)Impulse Wrote:  If your omnipotent gawd had wanted to communicate something to us either directly or through inspired works, this thread wouldn't exist because every one of us would already understand gawd's meaning. An omnipotent being wouldn't fail. That's all that really matters so your thread is moot.

Your argument assumes that everyone here would already understand what it is that God is trying to communicate to them.

What reason do you have for asserting this? At what age would humans understand what God was trying to communicate to them?

You also assume that because some here claim to not be privy to this knowledge, that therefore they never will.

Why assume this?
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19-06-2014, 05:42 PM
RE: A Christian's response to"An atheist's critique of the Bible
sigh.....guess I have to educate ol jeremy yet again...

1) Matthew 27:51-53
King James Version (KJV)
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Odd no where did anyone mention this amazing zombie invasion.....no where, outside of the bible where it was written 200 years after the fact.....yeah.

2)Why there are no records of Jesus Christ

It is not possible to find in any legitimate religious or historical writings compiled between the beginning of the first century and well into the fourth century any reference to Jesus Christ and the spectacular events that the Church says accompanied his life.

This confirmation comes from Frederic Farrar (1831-1903) of Trinity College, Cambridge:
"It is amazing that history has not embalmed for us even one certain or definite saying or circumstance in the life of the Saviour of mankind ... there is no statement in all history that says anyone saw Jesus or talked with him. Nothing in history is more astonishing than the silence of contemporary writers about events relayed in the four Gospels."
(The Life of Christ, Frederic W. Farrar, Cassell, London, 1874)

This situation arises from a conflict between history and New Testament narratives. Dr Tischendorf made this comment:
"We must frankly admit that we have no source of information with respect to the life of Jesus Christ other than ecclesiastic writings assembled during the fourth century."
(Codex Sinaiticus, Dr Constantin von Tischendorf, British Library, London)

There is an explanation for those hundreds of years of silence:
the construct of Christianity did not begin until after the first quarter of the fourth century, and that is why Pope Leo X (d. 1521) called Christ a "fable"

3) "Whatever you ask for in prayer with faith, you will receive” (Bible, Matthew 21:22).

"Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and the door will be opened to you” (Bible, Matthew 7:7).

These statements do not jibe with me as it is obvious that when one considers that billions of desperate prayers uttered over time have gone unanswered. I would presume that the millions of Jews who were massacred made a few prayers on their own behalf or on the behalf of their children to no avail. Millions of brokenhearted parents have prayed over their sick and dying children but to no avail. The handful of prayers that people think got answered is just chance and circumstance. Billions of prayers get uttered daily, none are answered by a diety....real or imagined.

4) Psalms 82.1 (KJV) God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

hmmmm gods, plural, i thought there was only one.....

5) Matthew 27:45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.

Mark 15:33 And when the sixth hour was come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour.

Luke 23:44-48 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.

unfortunately for believers, there is not one shred of evidence that this happened...zero, all of the royal scribes, historians, philosophers, and literate people who wrote down and recorded EVERYTHING of any significance, failed to note the whole earth going dark mid-day for three hours...an eclipse lasts about 7.5 mins max, so it wasn’t that, and there were two reknowned historians who recorded each and every eclipse, as well as any other astronomical oddity....nothing, .....zero. Never happened.


6) The phrase of Isaiah 40:22, "the circle of the earth" is very controversial. There are five main views of this phrase. The first interpretation says that the word "circle" means "sphere" indicating that the earth is a sphere. This view seems most unlikely since we have all ready seen that the Hebrew word gh means "circle," and it seems very remote that it means "sphere" because of the context, and there is a better Hebrew word for "sphere," rwd. In Isaiah 22:18 the word rwd is translated "ball." If the LXX translators understood gh as "sphere," they would have used the Greek word sfairoeides. Plugging the meaning of "sphere" into every passage that gh occurs will result in awkward interpretations.

The second interpretation is that the earth is a round flat disk. Although the ancient world thought the earth was round and flat, this phrase seems to refer to the shape the vaulted heavens above the earth from which the inhabitants look like grasshoppers.

this same fictional book further purports the world is flat,

Revelation 7:1
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

corners? no no, sry it is a round sphere....ah, guess the lord and creator wasnt aware of that.

Matthew 4:8
Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; (KJV)

Astronomical bodies are spherical, and you cannot see the entire exterior surface from any place. The kingdoms of Egypt, China, Greece, Crete, sections of Asia Minor, India, Maya (in Mexico), Carthage (North Africa), Rome (Italy), Korea, and other settlements from these kingdoms of the world were widely distributed.

Job 11:9
The measure thereof is longer than the earth, and broader than the sea.

Job 28:24
For he looketh to the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven;

Job 37:3
He directeth it under the whole heaven, and his lightning unto the ends of the earth.

Job 38:4-6
Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

Job 38:13
That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?

Jeremiah 16:19
O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.

Daniel 4:11
The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth Laughat

You are at a distinct disadvantage, you believe in a fairy tale, a fairy tale based on a discredited, easily dismantled and disproven fictional book, filled with allegorical writings by communities of followers who penned them under more known author's names, pseudipigrapha by definition. Now if you wanted to discuss the philosophical theories of god then that would be a different, albeit subjective discussion, but if you cling to the bible as argument from authority, then you are beyond help. the world isn't flat, there isn't enough water on or in the planet to flood the world as per the mythical global flood that never happened, and jesus christ super star the miracle performing zombie didnt exist either as all writings of him were penned after his death by people who never witnessed the alleged events. Seek knowledge, it will help you with your 'faith".

ahhh taking jeremy to the woodshed is so satisfying. Laugh out load Evil_monster

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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19-06-2014, 05:44 PM
RE: A Christian's response to"An atheist's critique of the Bible
(19-06-2014 05:42 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  sigh.....guess I have to educate ol jeremy yet again...

1) Matthew 27:51-53
King James Version (KJV)
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Odd no where did anyone mention this amazing zombie invasion.....no where, outside of the bible where it was written 200 years after the fact.....yeah.

2)Why there are no records of Jesus Christ

It is not possible to find in any legitimate religious or historical writings compiled between the beginning of the first century and well into the fourth century any reference to Jesus Christ and the spectacular events that the Church says accompanied his life.

This confirmation comes from Frederic Farrar (1831-1903) of Trinity College, Cambridge:
"It is amazing that history has not embalmed for us even one certain or definite saying or circumstance in the life of the Saviour of mankind ... there is no statement in all history that says anyone saw Jesus or talked with him. Nothing in history is more astonishing than the silence of contemporary writers about events relayed in the four Gospels."
(The Life of Christ, Frederic W. Farrar, Cassell, London, 1874)

This situation arises from a conflict between history and New Testament narratives. Dr Tischendorf made this comment:
"We must frankly admit that we have no source of information with respect to the life of Jesus Christ other than ecclesiastic writings assembled during the fourth century."
(Codex Sinaiticus, Dr Constantin von Tischendorf, British Library, London)

There is an explanation for those hundreds of years of silence:
the construct of Christianity did not begin until after the first quarter of the fourth century, and that is why Pope Leo X (d. 1521) called Christ a "fable"

3) "Whatever you ask for in prayer with faith, you will receive” (Bible, Matthew 21:22).

"Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and the door will be opened to you” (Bible, Matthew 7:7).

These statements do not jibe with me as it is obvious that when one considers that billions of desperate prayers uttered over time have gone unanswered. I would presume that the millions of Jews who were massacred made a few prayers on their own behalf or on the behalf of their children to no avail. Millions of brokenhearted parents have prayed over their sick and dying children but to no avail. The handful of prayers that people think got answered is just chance and circumstance. Billions of prayers get uttered daily, none are answered by a diety....real or imagined.

4) Psalms 82.1 (KJV) God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

hmmmm gods, plural, i thought there was only one.....

5) Matthew 27:45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.

Mark 15:33 And when the sixth hour was come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour.

Luke 23:44-48 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.

unfortunately for believers, there is not one shred of evidence that this happened...zero, all of the royal scribes, historians, philosophers, and literate people who wrote down and recorded EVERYTHING of any significance, failed to note the whole earth going dark mid-day for three hours...an eclipse lasts about 7.5 mins max, so it wasn’t that, and there were two reknowned historians who recorded each and every eclipse, as well as any other astronomical oddity....nothing, .....zero. Never happened.


6) The phrase of Isaiah 40:22, "the circle of the earth" is very controversial. There are five main views of this phrase. The first interpretation says that the word "circle" means "sphere" indicating that the earth is a sphere. This view seems most unlikely since we have all ready seen that the Hebrew word gh means "circle," and it seems very remote that it means "sphere" because of the context, and there is a better Hebrew word for "sphere," rwd. In Isaiah 22:18 the word rwd is translated "ball." If the LXX translators understood gh as "sphere," they would have used the Greek word sfairoeides. Plugging the meaning of "sphere" into every passage that gh occurs will result in awkward interpretations.

The second interpretation is that the earth is a round flat disk. Although the ancient world thought the earth was round and flat, this phrase seems to refer to the shape the vaulted heavens above the earth from which the inhabitants look like grasshoppers.

this same fictional book further purports the world is flat,

Revelation 7:1
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

corners? no no, sry it is a round sphere....ah, guess the lord and creator wasnt aware of that.

Matthew 4:8
Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; (KJV)

Astronomical bodies are spherical, and you cannot see the entire exterior surface from any place. The kingdoms of Egypt, China, Greece, Crete, sections of Asia Minor, India, Maya (in Mexico), Carthage (North Africa), Rome (Italy), Korea, and other settlements from these kingdoms of the world were widely distributed.

Job 11:9
The measure thereof is longer than the earth, and broader than the sea.

Job 28:24
For he looketh to the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven;

Job 37:3
He directeth it under the whole heaven, and his lightning unto the ends of the earth.

Job 38:4-6
Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

Job 38:13
That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?

Jeremiah 16:19
O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.

Daniel 4:11
The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth Laughat

You are at a distinct disadvantage, you believe in a fairy tale, a fairy tale based on a discredited, easily dismantled and disproven fictional book, filled with allegorical writings by communities of followers who penned them under more known author's names, pseudipigrapha by definition. Now if you wanted to discuss the philosophical theories of god then that would be a different, albeit subjective discussion, but if you cling to the bible as argument from authority, then you are beyond help. the world isn't flat, there isn't enough water on or in the planet to flood the world as per the mythical global flood that never happened, and jesus christ super star the miracle performing zombie didnt exist either as all writings of him were penned after his death by people who never witnessed the alleged events. Seek knowledge, it will help you with your 'faith".

ahhh taking jeremy to the woodshed is so satisfying. Laugh out load Evil_monster

Take all that you have written and start a thread in the boxing ring. simply copy and paste it and we will discuss it one on one.

if you are willing.
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