A Crossroad: An email to a church member
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12-12-2013, 06:09 PM
RE: A Crossroad: An email to a church member
You know we don't classify people on dickery based on their religion, we base that on the person and how they act.

The faith doesn't amount to all of a person, and it goes both ways. I have more in my life than just my atheism, and so does KC with his faith.

Bury me with my guns on, so when I reach the other side - I can show him what it feels like to die.
Bury me with my guns on, so when I'm cast out of the sky, I can shoot the devil right between the eyes.
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12-12-2013, 06:25 PM
RE: A Crossroad: An email to a church member
(12-12-2013 05:33 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(12-12-2013 04:15 PM)The Misanthrope Wrote:  Obviously some new agey, PC and unisex believing dingbat thought it would show how fair us atheists are by appointing a Devil Dodger as an administrator.

Lol, aren't you full of labels!

KC is admin because he is good at it. That is all.
I am a very simple man (now there's an opening!) I have a very “good or evil,” Manichean view of Christians. As they too have of humanity.

If they are Bible literalists they are patently evil for following a psychotic leader who is infinitely worse than the Fuhrer ever was. If they aren't Bible literalists then they clearly ain't Christians because Big Jewlie was a Bible literalist.

If they are the former they should be eliminated, just as their fellow travelling, racially supremacist Nazi mates were. If they are the latter then they are self-seeking hypocrites having an each way bet that the Bible may need to be taken literally true and because society has been brainwashed that “decent, “nice,” “respectable,” and "socially acceptable" are synonyms for Christian.

Anyone who thinks he is or should be seen as superior to his fellows, in any way, is an enemy of humanity and should be treated as such. "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"

Now shut the fuck up cause I am going to take my infinitely better than humans Dogs Bowing for a walk.
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12-12-2013, 06:26 PM
RE: A Crossroad: An email to a church member
Shut the fuck up...one of the best exit lines ever.

See ya.

I'm not anti-social. I'm pro-solitude. Sleepy
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12-12-2013, 06:31 PM
RE: A Crossroad: An email to a church member
What was this thread supposed to be about again? Oh yeah! KC.

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! -Brian's mum
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12-12-2013, 06:33 PM
RE: A Crossroad: An email to a church member
There was a lot of love shown here for KC. Big Grin

I'm not anti-social. I'm pro-solitude. Sleepy
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12-12-2013, 06:52 PM
RE: A Crossroad: An email to a church member
It ain't over yet. KC still has yet to hear a response.

Geez, I feel like we're talking about some TV drama.

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! -Brian's mum
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12-12-2013, 07:32 PM
RE: A Crossroad: An email to a church member
(09-12-2013 11:20 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  He texted me a few days ago asking if I was all right because we haven't been to church in months. I sent him a few sentences telling him we were good and we would seen him soon. I wrote this email to him, but I haven't sent it yet. I feel he deserves and explanation because he is a good guy... heck, the whole church is awesome and filled with good people. But yeah, here it is:

Hey ****, I know my text was a little nebulous, and I feel that I at least owe you a little more than a few, choppy sentences. You and Bro. ***** have really reached out to us, and for that, I can’t thank you enough. In fact, we’ve never been more welcomed to a church and by a church family as we were at [current church]. I have said it before, and I’ll say it again. I love [current church]. I love the people. I love the preaching. Everything about it is great. But, sometimes… sometimes, that’s not enough.

I don’t know if I want to be a “Christian” anymore, ****. And, don’t take that to mean that I’m turning my back on Christ and all that garbage. I’m not. My wife’s not. My family’s not. I still believe in the Bible and its inspired message. I still believe in Jesus the Christ, the Son of God. I know that He is the only way into heaven, and only through acknowledgement of His choice can one be saved.

I believe all this. Jess believes all this. This is what I’m teaching my children.

But, in that… I don’t want to be attached to “Christians” anymore. I don’t really want to have that term even attached to my identity anymore.

When all the crap went down at [former church], I thought I was fine to move on. Jess and I both thought we were fine. That’s why we came to [current church]. It had a profound effect on Jess, and she is just now realizing it… and in a sense, it had an effect on me. With me, though, I’ve long realized and grown contempt for the church and its followers.

About the time I got hired on with [current employer], my brother (a pastor), got fired from his position as a Family Life Pastor in North Carolina. They fired him because he wasn't a “good fit”; not because of misconduct or heresy or committing a crime… no, those are understandable. But, it was because they just didn't want him anymore. He had been there for a couple of years, and he uprooted his family to move to North Carolina because they wanted him there. And, then they fired him without any prior warning or corrective actions. Just “bam”. Sorry, you’re done.

I know [current church] has no bearing on this situation; nor are any of you in any way related or in any way have caused either of these situations. If anything, you guys have been there as support. However, not everyone in Nazi Germany wanted to commit genocide, either, but that’s how we identify them.

I didn't mean to go all Goodwin's Law on you or this situation, but I need an extreme analogy to communicate the level of disgust, contempt, jadedness, and scorn I and my wife have for “Christians”. Time and time again, “Christians” have displayed a level of malice towards not only outsiders and non-believers but also fellow Christians. And sometimes it’s not even malice that they show… it’s just simple indifference.

An example: When I got laid off and almost ended up without a house, almost every Christian I knew told me that they were “praying for me”. Not that I don’t I believe in prayer, but I believe “praying for you” is a lazy get-out-of-jail-free card for Christians. It’s a “hey, yeah, I’m here to help. See, I’m praying!”

I received zero monetary help from Christians. My atheist friend sent me $250 to help keep my electricity on. My other atheist friend told me he wasn't going to let me lose my house. I have not met either of these people in person before, but they display a level of loyalty and love that I have never seen from a Christian.

What I've seen with Christians is, as aforementioned, malice. Greed. Hate-mongering. I don’t want my children around that. They are going to be exposed to enough of this throughout their lifetime, and I don’t want to shove hypocrisy in their faces with the “loving” church. Thank goodness my children are too young to understand why we stopped going to [former church]… or why their Uncle Jared had to move back home… or why we don’t associate with other church people anymore.

I know you guys aren't immune to this either because of what happened a few years ago with the Calvinist/Arminian fallout. How and why would I ever want to expose my family to people who are supposedly the “body of Christ” yet we have 33,000 denominations of Christianity because we fight with each other so much?

It’s a conundrum, ****. I believe as Christians do. In terms of labeling, I’m as much of a Christian as anyone at the church… but I don’t want that anymore. ****, you were the only person that I told about my beliefs regarding salvation, origins, and eschatology because I knew you wouldn't pass judgment. Not everyone is like you, though. How do you think the other people at the church would respond if they knew that I believed in evolution? Sure, they would be nice… but I would be a pariah behind closed doors and through whispers. I would be talked about and labeled and be an outcast in a sense.

Why is that, though? Some great Christian men and theologians are Theistic Evolutionist and Evolutionary Creationist? Why?

Because Christians… heck… the religious… don’t amalgamate. They separate and vilify. Protestants and Catholics. Calvinist and Arminians. Pre-trib and Millennialist. Young Earth Creationist and Theistic Evolutionists. All of these identifiers. All of these separations. Instead of just one “Christian”.

So, I don’t want it anymore. I don’t want that term… that association… anything to do with it. Unfortunately, this might even include church.

So… thanks for all that you've done, ****. I hope you understand. Keep in touch.

-Jeremy

A little late to the party, but I just wanted to give you my support, and while I am not a person of faith, just know that you will be on my mind.

As for the guy's response to you: Remember, it is all a part of God's plan.

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12-12-2013, 07:37 PM
RE: A Crossroad: An email to a church member
(12-12-2013 06:09 PM)Question Wrote:  You know we don't classify people on dickery based on their religion, we base that on the person and how they act.

The faith doesn't amount to all of a person, and it goes both ways. I have more in my life than just my atheism, and so does KC with his faith.


[Image: belief_zps3405e5f2.jpg]

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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12-12-2013, 09:15 PM
RE: A Crossroad: An email to a church member
(12-12-2013 07:32 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 11:20 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  He texted me a few days ago asking if I was all right because we haven't been to church in months. I sent him a few sentences telling him we were good and we would seen him soon. I wrote this email to him, but I haven't sent it yet. I feel he deserves and explanation because he is a good guy... heck, the whole church is awesome and filled with good people. But yeah, here it is:

Hey ****, I know my text was a little nebulous, and I feel that I at least owe you a little more than a few, choppy sentences. You and Bro. ***** have really reached out to us, and for that, I can’t thank you enough. In fact, we’ve never been more welcomed to a church and by a church family as we were at [current church]. I have said it before, and I’ll say it again. I love [current church]. I love the people. I love the preaching. Everything about it is great. But, sometimes… sometimes, that’s not enough.

I don’t know if I want to be a “Christian” anymore, ****. And, don’t take that to mean that I’m turning my back on Christ and all that garbage. I’m not. My wife’s not. My family’s not. I still believe in the Bible and its inspired message. I still believe in Jesus the Christ, the Son of God. I know that He is the only way into heaven, and only through acknowledgement of His choice can one be saved.

I believe all this. Jess believes all this. This is what I’m teaching my children.

But, in that… I don’t want to be attached to “Christians” anymore. I don’t really want to have that term even attached to my identity anymore.

When all the crap went down at [former church], I thought I was fine to move on. Jess and I both thought we were fine. That’s why we came to [current church]. It had a profound effect on Jess, and she is just now realizing it… and in a sense, it had an effect on me. With me, though, I’ve long realized and grown contempt for the church and its followers.

About the time I got hired on with [current employer], my brother (a pastor), got fired from his position as a Family Life Pastor in North Carolina. They fired him because he wasn't a “good fit”; not because of misconduct or heresy or committing a crime… no, those are understandable. But, it was because they just didn't want him anymore. He had been there for a couple of years, and he uprooted his family to move to North Carolina because they wanted him there. And, then they fired him without any prior warning or corrective actions. Just “bam”. Sorry, you’re done.

I know [current church] has no bearing on this situation; nor are any of you in any way related or in any way have caused either of these situations. If anything, you guys have been there as support. However, not everyone in Nazi Germany wanted to commit genocide, either, but that’s how we identify them.

I didn't mean to go all Goodwin's Law on you or this situation, but I need an extreme analogy to communicate the level of disgust, contempt, jadedness, and scorn I and my wife have for “Christians”. Time and time again, “Christians” have displayed a level of malice towards not only outsiders and non-believers but also fellow Christians. And sometimes it’s not even malice that they show… it’s just simple indifference.

An example: When I got laid off and almost ended up without a house, almost every Christian I knew told me that they were “praying for me”. Not that I don’t I believe in prayer, but I believe “praying for you” is a lazy get-out-of-jail-free card for Christians. It’s a “hey, yeah, I’m here to help. See, I’m praying!”

I received zero monetary help from Christians. My atheist friend sent me $250 to help keep my electricity on. My other atheist friend told me he wasn't going to let me lose my house. I have not met either of these people in person before, but they display a level of loyalty and love that I have never seen from a Christian.

What I've seen with Christians is, as aforementioned, malice. Greed. Hate-mongering. I don’t want my children around that. They are going to be exposed to enough of this throughout their lifetime, and I don’t want to shove hypocrisy in their faces with the “loving” church. Thank goodness my children are too young to understand why we stopped going to [former church]… or why their Uncle Jared had to move back home… or why we don’t associate with other church people anymore.

I know you guys aren't immune to this either because of what happened a few years ago with the Calvinist/Arminian fallout. How and why would I ever want to expose my family to people who are supposedly the “body of Christ” yet we have 33,000 denominations of Christianity because we fight with each other so much?

It’s a conundrum, ****. I believe as Christians do. In terms of labeling, I’m as much of a Christian as anyone at the church… but I don’t want that anymore. ****, you were the only person that I told about my beliefs regarding salvation, origins, and eschatology because I knew you wouldn't pass judgment. Not everyone is like you, though. How do you think the other people at the church would respond if they knew that I believed in evolution? Sure, they would be nice… but I would be a pariah behind closed doors and through whispers. I would be talked about and labeled and be an outcast in a sense.

Why is that, though? Some great Christian men and theologians are Theistic Evolutionist and Evolutionary Creationist? Why?

Because Christians… heck… the religious… don’t amalgamate. They separate and vilify. Protestants and Catholics. Calvinist and Arminians. Pre-trib and Millennialist. Young Earth Creationist and Theistic Evolutionists. All of these identifiers. All of these separations. Instead of just one “Christian”.

So, I don’t want it anymore. I don’t want that term… that association… anything to do with it. Unfortunately, this might even include church.

So… thanks for all that you've done, ****. I hope you understand. Keep in touch.

-Jeremy

A little late to the party, but I just wanted to give you my support, and while I am not a person of faith, just know that you will be on my mind.

As for the guy's response to you: Remember, it is all a part of God's plan.

Ato?! I thought you were being kept in the basement?!
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12-12-2013, 09:43 PM
RE: A Crossroad: An email to a church member
(12-12-2013 06:25 PM)The Misanthrope Wrote:  
(12-12-2013 05:33 PM)Dom Wrote:  Lol, aren't you full of labels!

KC is admin because he is good at it. That is all.
I am a very simple man (now there's an opening!) I have a very “good or evil,” Manichean view of Christians. As they too have of humanity.

If they are Bible literalists they are patently evil for following a psychotic leader who is infinitely worse than the Fuhrer ever was. If they aren't Bible literalists then they clearly ain't Christians because Big Jewlie was a Bible literalist.

If they are the former they should be eliminated, just as their fellow travelling, racially supremacist Nazi mates were. If they are the latter then they are self-seeking hypocrites having an each way bet that the Bible may need to be taken literally true and because society has been brainwashed that “decent, “nice,” “respectable,” and "socially acceptable" are synonyms for Christian.

Anyone who thinks he is or should be seen as superior to his fellows, in any way, is an enemy of humanity and should be treated as such. "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"

Now shut the fuck up cause I am going to take my infinitely better than humans Dogs Bowing for a walk.

Damn old man, you're even more grumpy than Chas and that's saying something. Thumbsup

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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