A Crossroad: An email to a church member
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13-12-2013, 10:59 AM
RE: A Crossroad: An email to a church member
(13-12-2013 06:23 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  
(10-12-2013 09:00 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  I wish more Christians followed this : /

I can't help wondering what goes wrong here. Are all Christians bad at following this commandment? Are there some special ones that are good at it, but are hard to find amongst the chaff? Is it the seeker who is at fault, not fitting into the group think as they should? Is it the commandment itself? By this shall all men know that Jesus disciples left us long ago?

I know there is a strong free will component at work here, but this is not some idle aspirational goal. It is a commandment given directly from the mouth of Jesus. If his church fails at this as he knows they will and they must, then how will all men know? How will they know his disciples when atheists can do better than those with divine help? How will they know his disciples when the airwaves are full of Christian bigotry? How will they know his disciples when churches split and fail?

Wow. No. Just No.
This is crazy --- batshit crazy.


You should maybe post on a theist site to pose such questions.

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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13-12-2013, 11:20 AM
RE: A Crossroad: An email to a church member
(13-12-2013 06:23 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  If his church fails at this as he knows they will and they must, then how will all men know? How will they know his disciples when atheists can do better than those with divine help? How will they know his disciples when the airwaves are full of Christian bigotry? How will they know his disciples when churches split and fail?

I know, I know! Calvinism is right - there are chosen ones, and it's us! We atheists are the chosen ones! Big Grin

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13-12-2013, 11:28 AM
RE: A Crossroad: An email to a church member
(13-12-2013 11:20 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(13-12-2013 06:23 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  If his church fails at this as he knows they will and they must, then how will all men know? How will they know his disciples when atheists can do better than those with divine help? How will they know his disciples when the airwaves are full of Christian bigotry? How will they know his disciples when churches split and fail?

I know, I know! Calvinism is right - there are chosen ones, and it's us! We atheists are the chosen ones! Big Grin

Hmm maybe the test is not to believe all the bullshit and just being a good person cause it's the right fucking thing to do. Imagine the look on Anne Coulters face if she were to get to Heaven and there standing next to God is Christopher Hitchens and Bertrand Russell holding court, before she is lead away.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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13-12-2013, 11:32 AM
RE: A Crossroad: An email to a church member
(13-12-2013 09:57 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  A recent text I sent to a friend who is struggling with guilt. He is completely unrelated to this event:

You're carrying around a lifetime of indoctrination of the Baptist Church. It says that you should feel ashamed and guilty of your sins. That's not what the Bible teaches. We are to be free from sin. Yeah, we mess up... we're human. But, I'm not going to be ashamed of that or guilt myself. You shouldn't either. The church indoctrination has done so much damage. I hate it. When I let go of it, it was liberating. I hope you can do the same. That's not living. And, it's definitely not what it means to be a Christian. It's a form of suppression and crowd control for the masses so the church can retain itself. It's corrupt and evil and pollutes Christ.

So are you more deist?


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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13-12-2013, 11:51 AM
RE: A Crossroad: An email to a church member
(13-12-2013 11:32 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(13-12-2013 09:57 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  A recent text I sent to a friend who is struggling with guilt. He is completely unrelated to this event:

You're carrying around a lifetime of indoctrination of the Baptist Church. It says that you should feel ashamed and guilty of your sins. That's not what the Bible teaches. We are to be free from sin. Yeah, we mess up... we're human. But, I'm not going to be ashamed of that or guilt myself. You shouldn't either. The church indoctrination has done so much damage. I hate it. When I let go of it, it was liberating. I hope you can do the same. That's not living. And, it's definitely not what it means to be a Christian. It's a form of suppression and crowd control for the masses so the church can retain itself. It's corrupt and evil and pollutes Christ.

So are you more deist?

No, not in the least. I'm still very much Christian. I very much believe in the Christian God as described in the Bible. Like I said in my letter, it's a separation from the Church and the hypocrisy that I want. I just see it everywhere. And, I just can't justify it anymore.

The things is... if I can live my life without hypocrisy, then I know others can. Christians are supposed to be doing this, and I don't see it.

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13-12-2013, 11:53 AM
RE: A Crossroad: An email to a church member
(13-12-2013 11:51 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(13-12-2013 11:32 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  So are you more deist?

No, not in the least. I'm still very much Christian. I very much believe in the Christian God as described in the Bible. Like I said in my letter, it's a separation from the Church and the hypocrisy that I want. I just see it everywhere. And, I just can't justify it anymore.

The things is... if I can live my life without hypocrisy, then I know others can. Christians are supposed to be doing this, and I don't see it.

Really like that sentence!

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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13-12-2013, 12:02 PM
RE: A Crossroad: An email to a church member
(13-12-2013 11:51 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(13-12-2013 11:32 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  So are you more deist?

No, not in the least. I'm still very much Christian. I very much believe in the Christian God as described in the Bible. Like I said in my letter, it's a separation from the Church and the hypocrisy that I want. I just see it everywhere. And, I just can't justify it anymore.

The things is... if I can live my life without hypocrisy, then I know others can. Christians are supposed to be doing this, and I don't see it.

Obviously Christianity has and does have their issues with being hypocritical. Other religions have their own issues too...

Do you think it's the religious hypocrisy that fuels atheism?


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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13-12-2013, 12:07 PM
RE: A Crossroad: An email to a church member
(13-12-2013 12:02 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(13-12-2013 11:51 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  No, not in the least. I'm still very much Christian. I very much believe in the Christian God as described in the Bible. Like I said in my letter, it's a separation from the Church and the hypocrisy that I want. I just see it everywhere. And, I just can't justify it anymore.

The things is... if I can live my life without hypocrisy, then I know others can. Christians are supposed to be doing this, and I don't see it.

Obviously Christianity has and does have their issues with being hypocritical. Other religions have their own issues too...

Do you think it's the religious hypocrisy that fuels atheism?

I think for many that is the case. Certainly kick-started my non-congregational life years and years ago. Yes - hypocrisy is HUGE and history proves it time and again.

From what I've seen and read (even on forums) some people just do not *believe*. Period. The church and its actions - good or bad - don't matter one whip to these people. Most of the time - I envy that viewpoint.

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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13-12-2013, 12:07 PM
RE: A Crossroad: An email to a church member
I know you didn't ask me Moms. but I think it's the harm that religion causes both on a personal/psychological and a social level that fuels atheist "activism".

Unless by "fuels atheism" you meant "starts people on their journey to atheism."

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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13-12-2013, 12:23 PM
RE: A Crossroad: An email to a church member
(13-12-2013 12:07 PM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  
(13-12-2013 12:02 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Obviously Christianity has and does have their issues with being hypocritical. Other religions have their own issues too...

Do you think it's the religious hypocrisy that fuels atheism?

I think for many that is the case. Certainly kick-started my non-congregational life years and years ago. Yes - hypocrisy is HUGE and history proves it time and again.

From what I've seen and read (even on forums) some people just do not *believe*. Period. The church and its actions - good or bad - don't matter one whip to these people. Most of the time - I envy that viewpoint.

My husband is one of those people. If pressed hard enough he'll say he's atheist, but he doesn't give a crap really about religion one way or another. He doesn't give a crap about atheism much either.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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