A Crossroad: An email to a church member
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09-12-2013, 07:53 PM
RE: A Crossroad: An email to a church member
(09-12-2013 02:45 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  As I've said before, my words usually come across harsh via text.

Seemed pretty tame to Girly. Way to be the ball Christian, way to be the ball. Thumbsup

I am us and we is me. ... bitches.
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09-12-2013, 08:06 PM
RE: A Crossroad: An email to a church member
I know I don't know you king but it's from that perspective I say this. What you've written reads to me as a stranger, to be very honest and sincere. You certainly don't come across as harsh. If anything it seems considerate and honest. Come what may! Good luck!

A man blames his bad childhood on leprechauns. He claims they don't exist, but yet still says without a doubt that they stole all his money and then killed his parents. That's why he became Leprechaun-Man

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09-12-2013, 08:44 PM
RE: A Crossroad: An email to a church member
King -

No bud. I'm not telling you to do anything. I was just didn't want you to think that the desire to group ourselves in have and have nots is a Christian characteristic. It's a human one.

Usually people like to surround themselves with like minded people. You aren't happy in your group? That's ok. Just find a new one, or like Dom suggested, keep the ones you like from a group and throw the rest away.

Just curious - did your feelings about Christianity bring you here?

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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10-12-2013, 06:07 AM
RE: A Crossroad: An email to a church member
Having grown up completely surrounded by Christians in school, church and recreation, I get it completely. The biggest reason I cannot attend church is hypocracy.

The judgmental attitude takes hold due to the concept of sin. Rather than help, they lecture and pray. They chalk up the sin to some sort of supernatural temptation and completely ignore reality.

Blink
If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking. -George S. Patton
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10-12-2013, 06:34 AM
RE: A Crossroad: An email to a church member
“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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10-12-2013, 07:37 AM
RE: A Crossroad: An email to a church member
The slide continues... just a matter of time before you're sacrificing babies, drinking blood, and dancing naked under the harvest moon. Evil_monster

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10-12-2013, 07:49 AM
RE: A Crossroad: An email to a church member
(10-12-2013 06:34 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

And how many christian communities do you know that are truly known for following this command well
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10-12-2013, 08:41 AM
RE: A Crossroad: An email to a church member
Okay, revised the letter:

Hey ****, I know my text was a little nebulous, and I feel that I at leastat least I owe you a little more than a few, choppy sentences. You and Bro. ***** have really reached out to us, and for that, I can’t thank you enough. In fact, we’ve never been more welcomed to a church and by a church family as we were at [current church]. I have said it before, and I’ll say it again. I love [current church]. I love the people. I love the preaching. Everything about it is great. But, sometimes… sometimes, that’s not enough.

I don’t know if I want to be a “Christian” anymore, ****. And, don’t take that to mean that I’m turning my back on Christ and all that garbage. I’m not. My wife’s not. My family’s not. I still believe in the Bible and its inspired message. I still believe in Jesus the Christ, the Son of God. I know that He is the only way into heaven, and only through acknowledgement of His choice can one be saved.

I believe all this. Jess believes all this. This is what I’m teaching my children.

But, in that… I don’t want to be attached to “Christians” anymore. I don’t really want to have that term even attached to my identity anymore.

When all the crap went down at [former church], I thought I was fine to move on. Jess and I both thought we were fine. That’s why we came to [current church]. It had a profound effect on Jess, and she is just now realizing it… and in a sense, it had an effect on me. With me, though, I’ve long realized and grown contempt for the church and its followers.

About the time I got hired on with [current employer], my brother (a pastor), got fired from his position as a Family Life Pastor in North Carolina. They fired him because he wasn't a “good fit”; not because of misconduct or heresy or committing a crime… no, those are understandable. But, it was because they just didn't want him anymore. He had been there for a couple of years, and he uprooted his family to move to North Carolina because they wanted him there. And, then they fired him without any prior warning or corrective actions. Just “bam”. Sorry, you’re done.

I know [current church] has no bearing on this situation; nor are any of you in any way related or in any way have caused either of these situations. If anything, you guys have been there as support. However, not everyone in Nazi Germany wanted to commit genocide, either, but that’s how we identify them.

I didn't mean to go all Goodwin's Law on you or this situation, but
I need an extreme analogy to communicate the have a strong level of disgust, contempt, jadedness, and scorn I and my wife have for “Christians”. Time and time again, “Christians” have displayed a level of malice towards not only outsiders and non-believers but also fellow Christians. And sometimes it’s not even malice that they show… it’s just simple indifference.

An example: When I got laid off and almost ended up without a house, almost every Christian I knew told me that they were “praying for me”. Not that I don’t I believe in prayer, but I believe “praying for you” is a lazy get-out-of-jail-free card for Christians. It’s a “hey, yeah, I’m here to help. See, I’m praying!”

I received zero monetary help from Christians. My atheist friend sent me $250 to help keep my electricity on. My other atheist friend told me he wasn't going to let me lose my house. I have not met either of these people in person before, but they display a level of loyalty and love that I have never seen from a Christian.

What I've seen with Christians is, as aforementioned, malice. Greed. Hate-mongering. I don’t want my children around that. They are going to be exposed to enough of this throughout their lifetime, and I don’t want to shove hypocrisy in their faces with the “loving” church. Thank goodness my children are too young to understand why we stopped going to [former church]… or why their Uncle Jared had to move back home… or why we don’t associate with other church people anymore.

I know you guys aren't immune to this either because of what happened a few years ago with the Calvinist/Arminian fallout. How and why would I ever want to expose my family to people who are supposedly the “body of Christ” yet we have 33,000 denominations of Christianity because we fight with each other so much?

It’s a conundrum, ****. I believe as Christians do. In terms of labeling, I’m as much of a Christian as anyone at the church… but I don’t want that anymore. ****, you were the only person that I told about my beliefs regarding salvation, origins, and eschatology because I knew you wouldn't pass judgment. Not everyone is like you, though. How do you think the other people at the church would respond if they knew that I believed in evolution? Sure, they would be nice… but I would be a pariah behind closed doors and through whispers. I would be talked about and labeled and be an outcast in a sense.

Why is that, though? Some great Christian men and theologians are Theistic Evolutionist and Evolutionary Creationist? Why?

Because Christians… heck… the religious… don’t amalgamate. They separate and vilify. Protestants and Catholics. Calvinist and Arminians. Pre-trib and Millennialist. Young Earth Creationist and Theistic Evolutionists. All of these identifiers. All of these separations. Instead of just one “Christian”.

So, I don’t want it anymore. I don’t want that term… that association… anything to do with it. Unfortunately, this might even include church.

So… thanksgenuinely, and I mean this, thank you for all that you've done, ****. I hope you understand. Keep in touch.

-Jeremy

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10-12-2013, 08:51 AM
RE: A Crossroad: An email to a church member
(10-12-2013 08:41 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  My atheist friend sent me $250 to help keep my electricity on. My other atheist friend told me he wasn't going to let me lose my house. I have not met either of these people in person before, but they display a level of loyalty and love …..

I just wanted to say…out in the open, loud & clear…to these two folks who offered this help to you and your family…..THANK YOU & BRAVO to them for being kind & loving.

Actions speak louder than words.

BowingBowing

well done!


Be excellent to each other and party on, Dudes!
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10-12-2013, 09:00 AM
RE: A Crossroad: An email to a church member
(09-12-2013 05:16 PM)Smercury44 Wrote:  It's a great letter KC, I really liked the part about your atheist friends lending a helping have when needed. If you've never mentioned the loving/accepting nature of atheists to him before, I'm really interested to hear how he responds. There aren't enough people like you on our side getting that message out there. And sometimes we don't do the best job of it ourselves Confused

It must have been really difficult just to type this letter. Sometimes that's all you need to do to get your emotions out, then you can decide whether or not to send.

Hug Emily

Thanks, Em. And, I haven't told him about the generosity of my atheist friends. I have told him that I'm the admin of this site. He was somewhat shocked.

(09-12-2013 06:58 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  I know you'll disagree with this because....Calvinism. But, you can't know your own future.

I know I can't. I've always said there is a possibility, no matter how small, that I can become an atheist. I'm not omniscient.

(09-12-2013 07:33 PM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  I agree - if/when you send the letter keep us informed on how it goes. Thumbsup

I will. I'm still deciding on whether to send it, or to make a clean break without any "drama".

(09-12-2013 07:53 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Seemed pretty tame to Girly. Way to be the ball Christian, way to be the ball. Thumbsup

Yeah, but you and I are so much alike. You know what I mean when I say it. But, thank you.

(09-12-2013 08:06 PM)Monster_Riffs Wrote:  I know I don't know you king but it's from that perspective I say this. What you've written reads to me as a stranger, to be very honest and sincere. You certainly don't come across as harsh. If anything it seems considerate and honest. Come what may! Good luck!

Thank you, I appreciate it. The last thing I want is to come across as a pretentious dick, but I also want to be firm and get my point across.

(09-12-2013 08:44 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  King -

No bud. I'm not telling you to do anything. I was just didn't want you to think that the desire to group ourselves in have and have nots is a Christian characteristic. It's a human one.

Usually people like to surround themselves with like minded people. You aren't happy in your group? That's ok. Just find a new one, or like Dom suggested, keep the ones you like from a group and throw the rest away.

Just curious - did your feelings about Christianity bring you here?

Thanks, Cathym. And, thank you for the input. I came here because I worked with germanyt (another poster). It was the only forum that wasn't blocked by the web filter at work. Things just kind of happened from there.

(10-12-2013 06:07 AM)aquaquilter Wrote:  Having grown up completely surrounded by Christians in school, church and recreation, I get it completely. The biggest reason I cannot attend church is hypocracy.

The judgmental attitude takes hold due to the concept of sin. Rather than help, they lecture and pray. They chalk up the sin to some sort of supernatural temptation and completely ignore reality.

Yeah... this has been my general complaint for a long, long time.

(10-12-2013 06:34 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

I wish more Christians followed this : /

(10-12-2013 07:37 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  The slide continues... just a matter of time before you're sacrificing babies, drinking blood, and dancing naked under the harvest moon. Evil_monster

Now, now. HoC you know my response to this Tongue

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