A Crossroad: An email to a church member
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
10-12-2013, 02:17 PM
RE: A Crossroad: An email to a church member
Excellent editing of your first draft and I'm glad you sent it with confidence. Thumbsup

Must have been quite a relief to just get it all out into the open. Here it's a little different - you can say anything you want and work with the various feedback. Out there -IRL- I kind of imagine it to be somewhat like walking within a bubble among theists.

To me, many theist behave as if they expect something ubiquitous. I've not been able to put my finger on it... it's almost a judgement, somehow. I also can't help but feel as if they aren't just pretending at reality; almost as if they're playing a game and everyone is expected to play their part and play by the rules. When someone comes along who doesn't "play their part" and/or "play by the rules"... that's when they kick into full on scorn for fucking up the game.

How exhausting life must be for some. Undecided
***

So, Kingsy... can one predict one's true path with devout certainty ... ? Just thought I'd help you recall a certain discussion with Denicio several moons ago. You know the one I mean. Wink

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-12-2013, 02:37 PM
RE: A Crossroad: An email to a church member
(10-12-2013 12:25 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(10-12-2013 12:19 PM)Anjele Wrote:  As usual, you come here to the heathens...Dodgy Tongue

Would be nice if others would see that we really aren't so bad. Maybe your letter will get the message across to your friend that belief, or lack, thereof, is not the total makeup of a person.

I fit in better here anyway Smile

Fucking Pink Sheep in a crowd of Black Sheep.

So am I. Blush HUGS!

[Image: 3d366d5c-72a0-4228-b835-f404c2970188_zps...1381867723]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-12-2013, 03:14 PM
RE: A Crossroad: An email to a church member
That was quick. He replied back.

Jeremy,
Thank you for your candid explanation and response. Your words weigh heavy on my heart, and I find it difficult to draw my words together for a response that is not a typical "Sunday School answer".

The "church" does hold true to many of your words of indictment, as Paul confronted these heresies that were present at that time in the church 2,000 years ago. These fleshly acts were evident then, and they are still manifested today (sadly) in the modern day church. A true believer should only have evidence of God's moral character as fruit in their life, but unfortunately the flesh lashes out and acts out of its evil desires. That is why we must continually submit to His Spirit, and fight against the flesh being lived out in our Christian lives.

With that being said, I can only respond to your words with the answer that GK Chesterton once gave when he was once asked "what is wrong with the church?" "I am"

The ills within any church body occur when the flesh is allowed to act out of selfish desires, and not out of absolute humility as Christ did.

It is perfectly normal for fellow believers to have a difference of opinions to the secondary issues within the Faith (ex: eschatology, ecclesiology, creation, etc.) as long as we adhere to the primary objectives of the Gospel. We may differ in our opinions, but our love for one another should never be in question (John13:35).

It troubles me that I was not more sensitive to your family's needs over the last few weeks, and I only hope we can have an opportunity to continue our friendship in the future.

Jeremy, I also hope that you and your family will once again be a part of "the body" at [current church] so we can seek out every opportunity to corporately worship our wonderful Lord together. You have been asked about by several people, and we have been worried about all of you.

Do you mind if I communicate this with Bro *****? I do not want to overstep any boundaries that you would not want me to.

Thank you again for your words of honesty. I would like to have lunch sometime soon if you would like to.

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 5 users Like kingschosen's post
10-12-2013, 03:19 PM (This post was last modified: 10-12-2013 03:23 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: A Crossroad: An email to a church member
(10-12-2013 03:14 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  That was quick. He replied back.

Reads like a proper response from a friend. I'm guessing you'll wind up going back there once the foul taste of your last church and your brother's fiasco fade. It ain't about the church, it's all about the congregation. Big Grin

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like GirlyMan's post
10-12-2013, 03:22 PM
RE: A Crossroad: An email to a church member
(10-12-2013 03:14 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  That was quick. He replied back.

Jeremy,
Thank you for your candid explanation and response. Your words weigh heavy on my heart, and I find it difficult to draw my words together for a response that is not a typical "Sunday School answer".

The "church" does hold true to many of your words of indictment, as Paul confronted these heresies that were present at that time in the church 2,000 years ago. These fleshly acts were evident then, and they are still manifested today (sadly) in the modern day church. A true believer should only have evidence of God's moral character as fruit in their life, but unfortunately the flesh lashes out and acts out of its evil desires. That is why we must continually submit to His Spirit, and fight against the flesh being lived out in our Christian lives.

With that being said, I can only respond to your words with the answer that GK Chesterton once gave when he was once asked "what is wrong with the church?" "I am"

The ills within any church body occur when the flesh is allowed to act out of selfish desires, and not out of absolute humility as Christ did.

It is perfectly normal for fellow believers to have a difference of opinions to the secondary issues within the Faith (ex: eschatology, ecclesiology, creation, etc.) as long as we adhere to the primary objectives of the Gospel. We may differ in our opinions, but our love for one another should never be in question (John13:35).

It troubles me that I was not more sensitive to your family's needs over the last few weeks, and I only hope we can have an opportunity to continue our friendship in the future.

Jeremy, I also hope that you and your family will once again be a part of "the body" at [current church] so we can seek out every opportunity to corporately worship our wonderful Lord together. You have been asked about by several people, and we have been worried about all of you.

Do you mind if I communicate this with Bro *****? I do not want to overstep any boundaries that you would not want me to.

Thank you again for your words of honesty. I would like to have lunch sometime soon if you would like to.
What are your thoughts concerning his response? Consider

[Image: 7oDSbD4.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-12-2013, 03:30 PM
RE: A Crossroad: An email to a church member
Wow - that was quick.

It was good that he asked about sharing your personal shit instead of just blabbing it all over.

Whatcha gonna do, Kingsy - gonna break bread with brother man? Drinking Beverage

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-12-2013, 03:31 PM
RE: A Crossroad: An email to a church member
My response:

Thanks for the reply.

I want to make it clear; again, that is wasn’t anything that you or anyone from [current church] did or said.

Also, please don’t take what I said about monetary giving personally. That wasn’t meant towards you or anyone else. After all, we are still very new at [current church] and have minimal relationships with people. It’s not expected that people share that type of concern. If was meant as a description of how the Christians in my life that I know and have invested in don’t do anything other than “pray for me”. The atheists that I know and have invested in provided me with actual results. They displayed actions; the Christians did not.

I do know that “church” isn’t the crux of the problem here… it’s people. People are the problem, and I have had a growing contempt for people in the last 6 or 7 years. While there are some really good people, you being one of them, most are hollow, selfish, and manipulative beings that only seek to further themselves at whatever expense necessary. People stopped affecting me a long time ago, but that doesn’t mean I don’t recognize how they act.

In that, I look especially hard at Christians. I live set apart. I can confidently say that. Even though I have contempt for people, I do not treat them differently. I treat people equally. I do not condemn. I do not judge.

And, really… it’s not hard to do. So, I say this because I know it can be done... and it can be done easily… because I practice it daily and it took basically nothing… minimal change to do this. However, this is not how the vast majority of the Christian body acts. They act the opposite. They are actively doing something more difficult in order to simply be more malicious. This is something I simply cannot condone anymore or be attached to.

When the “Christians” in my life are atheists, it causes you to examine things in a different light. It also causes you to question those that are supposedly living under the influence of Christ. I go where the evidence leads me, ****. And, the evidence is leading me away from Christians.

Like I said in my last email, the handful of Christians that display Christ with their actions are not enough to convince me that Christians truly have a Christ-centered mentality and not a self-centered one.

It flatters me that people have asked about me, but to be perfectly blunt with you, ****, in the three or four months that we’ve been out of church, you and Bro. *****’s texts last week were the first contact I had received from anyone at [current church] albeit a letter in the mail saying that we were missed.

I didn’t sign on the forum for 3 or 4 days a few months back and I had people calling my phone asking if I was all right… making sure I wasn’t sick or hurt. I hate to keep beating that horse, but the atheists I know display Christ so much better than most of the Christians I know.

As a caveat, please… and I don’t want to seem harsh here… but please don’t stage an “intervention”. Please don’t have people calling me or asking me stuff… or showing up at my door. I know you wouldn’t do that, but I just had to say it.

And yes, it’s perfectly fine to share with Bro. *****. I’m an open book when it comes to this type of stuff. Always have and always will be. If you want to share it with the class, I’m fine with that as well. There isn’t anything anyone can say that’s going to influence me or offend me. I’ve simply moved past that.

As for lunch, I would like that. It just might be hard to pin something down considering my schedule. Talk to you soon,

-Jeremy

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 12 users Like kingschosen's post
10-12-2013, 03:41 PM
RE: A Crossroad: An email to a church member
It's good to see that you didn't just let them get away with saying they were worried about you...it's not like you were on some desert island somewhere and they couldn't find you to ask if you are okay. Someone's guilt (and perhaps their humanity) finally kicked in. When you live by the concept of 'God will provide" it means that you as a person don't have to. It's a handy excuse for non-action.

While I certainly don't think that you are dealing with a 'bad' person, you are dealing with a person (and persons) who live their lives hiding being the Christian label and think that gives them a pass.

Perhaps some social attachments will remain from the church, but can you ever go back there after this letter is read? How would you ever discern real concern from pity or guilt?

Just a question, not beating you up or anything.

It actually all pisses me off as I consider you a friend and I worried about you and your family, and we have never met. These people who do know you and QC and kidsC apparently were too busy to care or figured it was in God's hands. Cop out either way. I need to drive down there and have give them a sermon they won't soon forget. Angry

I'm not anti-social. I'm pro-solitude. Sleepy
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Anjele's post
10-12-2013, 03:46 PM
RE: A Crossroad: An email to a church member
Reading that just made me want to give everyone a group Hug


"Life is a daring adventure or it is nothing"--Helen Keller
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Bows and Arrows's post
10-12-2013, 03:47 PM (This post was last modified: 10-12-2013 04:00 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: A Crossroad: An email to a church member
(10-12-2013 03:31 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  I hate to keep beating that horse, but the atheists I know display Christ so much better than most of the Christians I know.

Have I mentioned lately that Pope Francis is starting to scare the shit outta Girly. It's a real Christian! Run for the hills! Bechased Biggest goddam threat to atheism since Jesus. Big Grin

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes GirlyMan's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: