A Deconstruction of the Moral Argument
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13-05-2014, 10:09 AM
RE: A Deconstruction of the Moral Argument
(13-05-2014 08:03 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  The cosmos is indifferent to all of it.

[Sam Harris'] many words and your nod of approval is fundamentally no different than my fart or burp.

[Image: Wakeuphuhwhat.gif]

Is this really happening? After hundreds of posts and weeks of quibbling over definitions and non-arguments we've finally hit some common ground? Or am I being too optimistic here, do we still have to proceed to solipsism? If not, then may I present...

Tentative point of agreement #1: There is no ultimate inherent meaning to anything.

Yes? No? Toss a coin?



Yes:


Time to own up to it and begin to argue over who gets to assign meaning to what and why. Is it you? Me? Humans? Aliens? God? Pixies? No-one? And why should the other ones care what meaning someone assigns to something, or should they?

No:


Nothing to see here, keep diggin'....

Τί ἐστιν ἀλήθεια?
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13-05-2014, 11:23 AM
RE: A Deconstruction of the Moral Argument
(13-05-2014 08:03 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  His many words and your nod of approval is fundamentally no different than my fart or burp.

So I can pick from your steaming pile of poo:
-My life has no meaning because I am not eternal;
-My life has no meaning because Jeremy Walker says it doesn't;
-My life has no meaning because I could care less if I'm farting or listening to Sam Harris;
-My life has no meaning because I can't imagine meaning without a god;
-My life has no meaning because there is no objective way to determine its value;

Or mine:
-My life has meaning because I am a finite event that will never happen again, and I get to experience it as a conscious being.

Deal with it.

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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13-05-2014, 11:35 AM
RE: A Deconstruction of the Moral Argument
(13-05-2014 11:23 AM)guitar_nut Wrote:  -My life has no meaning because there is no objective way to determine its value;

Nuh-uh, guitar_nut.

One can simply declare, by vapid self-serving assertion, that of course one's own subjective whatever - be it meaning, morality, scriptural interpretation - is really and totally truly objective, yes indeed, because after all, if it weren't, that would be bad, and such a bad thing can't be true, therefore it isn't, because despite the travails of maintaining such cognitive dissonance it at least makes one feel superficially better.

Yes

Seems legit.

... this is my signature!
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13-05-2014, 03:31 PM
RE: A Deconstruction of the Moral Argument
(12-05-2014 08:06 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(12-05-2014 07:56 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  "religion should not simply be tolerated but should be countered, criticized, and exposed by rational argument wherever its influence arises."

Religion will lead to the inevitable downfall of mankind.

We aren’t trying to sell you on anything, we have a close personal relationship with reality, not jesus, or any other mythical BS religious figure. Religion is the ultimate scam and while some of it is benign in nature, it is the radical "my view of my god is right and all of you heathens who believe otherwise better get on board" mentality that bothers me. it is the sneaky little financing of a politician who they support to get him/her in office so that their crazy agendas can be quietly slid into laws that guide this country. Those are the people we fight. If someone wants to whip a rubber chicken around their head while dancing in a counter clock wise circle quacking like a duck makes them feel closer to their mythical god, then by all means, knock yourself out...in the privacy of your own home or in a private venue with like-minded individuals. Don’t shove the rubber chicken down my throat; don’t manipulate politicians to modify laws that affect us all, based on your views. Get me?

Now for everyone else, we are providing a free service...information to counter the misinformation being shoveled onto America by the theists. Feel free to open your mind and learn about the world around you, or not.

I went from christian, to spiritualist, to agnostic to atheist, the more I learned the less I believed. I have spent my life learning, I have much to learn yet, as we all do. I freely admitted my biggest challenge is to neutrally review new information without bias, it is a struggle. Especially after 28 years of research. The problem isnt even religion per se, the true problem is faith. I dont know the answers, I just know that religion doesn't have the answers either and faith is a failed epistemology.

For many years I was of the "I don't believe, live and let live, why would I care what someone else believes" type of outlook. But I feel that religion slithers its way into politics and shapes the laws of this land which affect everyone, it uses fear to brainwash people, and even more despicably, children into believing absolute BS. It is evil to the core, and the ultimate pyramid scheme..money goes up, nothing of value comes down. it preys on the sick, the gullible, the ignorant, the elderly and the uneducated. Its supporters financially and politically use their organized power to block stem cell research that could lead to the curing of deadly diseases, to block a woman's right to abort, to teach creationism in public schools, etc etc..

This is the reason why as an educated intelligent human being it is my moral responsibility to fight the corrosive creep of religion where ever I find it. To look the other way is to imply by inaction that it is ok, and religion is anything but ok. The moderate religious followers who go to church, seek out fellowship, civil community outreach and support the homeless and poor are great factors of religion, but we don't need religion to have those in society. There are secular organizations that do the same thing...like foundation beyond belief. Just my opinion of course. But this is why I have been self-jarred into more assertive action versus religion.

you're living in pure unadulterated denial. humanity is on a collision course with destruction whether people are religious or not. Cosmically speaking, very soon humanity as we know it will cease to exist, even if all of the four billion or so religious suddenly became atheists, our fate is inevitable. There is no life beyond death. there is nothing.

So you can walk around speaking out against religion for the few years you have left and then you die. Then those who listened to your speeches will die too. a long procession of humans dying like maggots in a trash heap.

the sun will burn out long before the universe experiences heat death or either the big crunch.

if you want to be a real trooper, a real champ, then talk about this when you talk against religion. tell the whole truth.

I LOVE nursery rhymes! Have you heard the one where a risen from the dead zombie miracle performing savior son of god is coming back and taking his fans back to never never land, and leaving all of us poor non believers to burn in the coming apocalypse? According to this fictional book called the bible it was supposed to happen within their generation....tick...tock...tick...tock...huh, didn't happen, that is odd, 2,000 years later...still here. Enjoy your delusion. Get ready, HE is coming, quick, give away all of your worldly goods, give me your ATM card and PIN because you wont need them in never never land, don't forget to wear your sneakers and have change for the universal tolls before you drink the kool aid, lay down and await your savior.....

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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13-05-2014, 03:56 PM
RE: A Deconstruction of the Moral Argument
Hey walker , in the atheist forums.com site you claim only Christians go to heaven and all nonchristians will go to hell not matter how good they are. Jews holocaust victims would go to hell because they don't believe in Jebus. You want to elaborate more of this bullshit matter? Drinking Beverage
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13-05-2014, 05:10 PM
RE: A Deconstruction of the Moral Argument
(13-05-2014 03:31 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(12-05-2014 08:06 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  you're living in pure unadulterated denial. humanity is on a collision course with destruction whether people are religious or not. Cosmically speaking, very soon humanity as we know it will cease to exist, even if all of the four billion or so religious suddenly became atheists, our fate is inevitable. There is no life beyond death. there is nothing.

So you can walk around speaking out against religion for the few years you have left and then you die. Then those who listened to your speeches will die too. a long procession of humans dying like maggots in a trash heap.

the sun will burn out long before the universe experiences heat death or either the big crunch.

if you want to be a real trooper, a real champ, then talk about this when you talk against religion. tell the whole truth.

I LOVE nursery rhymes! Have you heard the one where a risen from the dead zombie miracle performing savior son of god is coming back and taking his fans back to never never land, and leaving all of us poor non believers to burn in the coming apocalypse? According to this fictional book called the bible it was supposed to happen within their generation....tick...tock...tick...tock...huh, didn't happen, that is odd, 2,000 years later...still here. Enjoy your delusion. Get ready, HE is coming, quick, give away all of your worldly goods, give me your ATM card and PIN because you wont need them in never never land, don't forget to wear your sneakers and have change for the universal tolls before you drink the kool aid, lay down and await your savior.....

I noticed you did not respond to what I wrote.
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13-05-2014, 06:36 PM
RE: A Deconstruction of the Moral Argument
(13-05-2014 05:10 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  I noticed you did not respond to what I wrote.

Don't ya hate that?Gasp
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13-05-2014, 06:47 PM
RE: A Deconstruction of the Moral Argument
(13-05-2014 05:10 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(13-05-2014 03:31 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  I LOVE nursery rhymes! Have you heard the one where a risen from the dead zombie miracle performing savior son of god is coming back and taking his fans back to never never land, and leaving all of us poor non believers to burn in the coming apocalypse? According to this fictional book called the bible it was supposed to happen within their generation....tick...tock...tick...tock...huh, didn't happen, that is odd, 2,000 years later...still here. Enjoy your delusion. Get ready, HE is coming, quick, give away all of your worldly goods, give me your ATM card and PIN because you wont need them in never never land, don't forget to wear your sneakers and have change for the universal tolls before you drink the kool aid, lay down and await your savior.....

I noticed you did not respond to what I wrote.

Really? Just now? Because I noticed a strong theme of that a while ago.

Hmmmm.

If there was only some way you could change that trend....
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13-05-2014, 08:30 PM
RE: A Deconstruction of the Moral Argument
(13-05-2014 05:10 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(13-05-2014 03:31 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  I LOVE nursery rhymes! Have you heard the one where a risen from the dead zombie miracle performing savior son of god is coming back and taking his fans back to never never land, and leaving all of us poor non believers to burn in the coming apocalypse? According to this fictional book called the bible it was supposed to happen within their generation....tick...tock...tick...tock...huh, didn't happen, that is odd, 2,000 years later...still here. Enjoy your delusion. Get ready, HE is coming, quick, give away all of your worldly goods, give me your ATM card and PIN because you wont need them in never never land, don't forget to wear your sneakers and have change for the universal tolls before you drink the kool aid, lay down and await your savior.....

I noticed you did not respond to what I wrote.
Yeah . I notice you don't respond to my post above too.
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13-05-2014, 08:39 PM
RE: A Deconstruction of the Moral Argument
Hey walker do you know Spanish ? Maybe we can chat better in my native language. Maybe you don't understand me so well in English.Smile
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