A Deconstruction of the Moral Argument
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
12-05-2014, 06:10 PM
RE: A Deconstruction of the Moral Argument
I can make this easy for everybody. Jeremy isn't interested in arguing, his mind is made and no argument will persuade him. For all the good you are doing you might as well be screaming at a brick wall.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-05-2014, 06:13 PM
RE: A Deconstruction of the Moral Argument
(12-05-2014 06:10 PM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  I can make this easy for everybody. Jeremy isn't interested in arguing, his mind is made and no argument will persuade him.

Oh, everybody's known that for ages.

Go look for his - ahem - "debates" if you're curious about his history.

(12-05-2014 06:10 PM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  For all the good you are doing you might as well be screaming at a brick wall.

Yes, but what of entertainment value?

... this is my signature!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-05-2014, 06:19 PM
RE: A Deconstruction of the Moral Argument
Yeah, I'm just responding because I find it entertaining.

I'm pretty sure this is Jeremy:

[Image: super-computer-nerd-580x348.jpeg]

Angel
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-05-2014, 06:19 PM
RE: A Deconstruction of the Moral Argument
(12-05-2014 05:47 PM)djhall Wrote:  
(12-05-2014 05:31 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  That is what it is really about. Freedom to you is getting to live however you choose without being morally accountable to anyone other than yourself. The horrific aspect of it all is that God existing would mean not only being accountable, but being accountable to the One who knows every thought you have ever had, and will judge you based on how you have lived.

God existing means that life is not all about you and what you want. Its about Him. I find it interesting that those who express the most misgivings about God being worthy of worship are some of the very ones that simply love having others honor them and think highly and speak highly of them.

Yes, your god is evil, so the horrific aspect of it would finding all of humanity in the inescapable grip of a sadist who lied about everything and doesn't give a rats ass about good or love of any of those lies. It is precisely because I do desire a moral existence, and one that values the happiness of other people, and because your god is clearly NOT moral and does not have our best interests at heart, that I find that prospect horrifying. Why would I want to suppress my acknowledgement of good and bad and heap praise on a sadist while he does evil?

Of course, I believe this to be true because I believe deeply in morals that are not culturally relative, and that exist independent of god, and that apply even to him. And he fails, miserably, to live up to the moral standards of even your average ignorant human, let alone serve as some light of moral purity to be followed.

Which brings us right back to the issue at hand.... your assertion that no such moral values can exist without god, that those moral values exist, and therefore we either have no morals or we believe god exists and gave us a moral standard which he immediately failed miserably to live up to.

He fails miserably because He does not condone the evil you love.

If we are being honest here.

Even if none of the passages which you claim demonstrate God as being evil existed, you still would find fault with Him because of who He is. He is God. You are not.

You would still be accountable to Him. So no I am not convinced that you are so holy and righteous that you find God to fail to meet your standard of morality.

If the bible condoned and supported every thing you love doing and thinking and saying and it condoned and supported your views, then you would be first in line holding it up as some book that people should order their lives around.

Because it says you are a sinner and that you need God, you despise it.

This is as it should be.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-05-2014, 06:21 PM
RE: A Deconstruction of the Moral Argument
(12-05-2014 05:24 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  The only problem you have is that you cannot account for how humans possess this knowledge of right and wrong on a secular view in any way that I will accept or admit.

Fixed that for ya! Thumbsup
(Because you know we have explained it to you many times.)

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Impulse's post
12-05-2014, 06:22 PM
RE: A Deconstruction of the Moral Argument
(12-05-2014 06:19 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Even if none of the passages which you claim demonstrate God as being evil existed, you still would find fault with Him because of who He is. He is God. You are not.

You just went full-retard...
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 6 users Like Azaraith's post
12-05-2014, 06:24 PM
RE: A Deconstruction of the Moral Argument
(12-05-2014 06:09 PM)Azaraith Wrote:  You really are a fuckwit, aren't you? That kindergarten response is funny, but seriously - is that your best? You've essentially just said "Nuh uh! Is too!" ... You've really got to do better than simply restating your opinion again as if that was an argument. We're not toddlers anymore, that shit doesn't work with adults.

I keep waiting for Jeremy to realize he can simplify his entire argument down to the nuclear weapon of argumentative obstinance...

Jeremy - "Here is my belief. I know I'm right."
TTA - "Here is where we think you are wrong."
Jeremy - "Yeah, but still, I know I'm right."
TTA - "Well then how about this..."
Jeremy - "Yeah, but still, I have a personal relationship."
TTA - "Uh, you can't possibly prove that."
Jeremy - "Yeah, but still, you can't prove me wrong."
TTA - "We don't have to."
Jeremy - "Yeah, but still..."
TTA - Frusty
Jeremy - "Yabut still."
TTA - Frusty
Jeremy - "Aha, I'm right!"
TTA - "What? No you aren't."
Jeremy - "Yabut still."
TTA - Frusty

It would speed things along much faster if you would simply condense your future posts to "Yabut still."

Jesus is my Stalker: He has graced me with his unconditional love, but if I reject it and refuse to love him in return, he will make my life Hell.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like djhall's post
12-05-2014, 06:29 PM
RE: A Deconstruction of the Moral Argument
Can we please stop feeding the troll?

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Cathym112's post
12-05-2014, 06:31 PM
RE: A Deconstruction of the Moral Argument
(12-05-2014 06:19 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(12-05-2014 05:47 PM)djhall Wrote:  Yes, your god is evil, so the horrific aspect of it would finding all of humanity in the inescapable grip of a sadist who lied about everything and doesn't give a rats ass about good or love of any of those lies. It is precisely because I do desire a moral existence, and one that values the happiness of other people, and because your god is clearly NOT moral and does not have our best interests at heart, that I find that prospect horrifying. Why would I want to suppress my acknowledgement of good and bad and heap praise on a sadist while he does evil?

Of course, I believe this to be true because I believe deeply in morals that are not culturally relative, and that exist independent of god, and that apply even to him. And he fails, miserably, to live up to the moral standards of even your average ignorant human, let alone serve as some light of moral purity to be followed.

Which brings us right back to the issue at hand.... your assertion that no such moral values can exist without god, that those moral values exist, and therefore we either have no morals or we believe god exists and gave us a moral standard which he immediately failed miserably to live up to.

He fails miserably because He does not condone the evil you love.

If we are being honest here.

Even if none of the passages which you claim demonstrate God as being evil existed, you still would find fault with Him because of who He is. He is God. You are not.

You would still be accountable to Him. So no I am not convinced that you are so holy and righteous that you find God to fail to meet your standard of morality.

If the bible condoned and supported every thing you love doing and thinking and saying and it condoned and supported your views, then you would be first in line holding it up as some book that people should order their lives around.

Because it says you are a sinner and that you need God, you despise it.

This is as it should be.

I am noticing a disturbing trend where you say we don't understand your argument because we are evil atheists.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Michael_Tadlock's post
12-05-2014, 06:48 PM
RE: A Deconstruction of the Moral Argument
(12-05-2014 06:19 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(12-05-2014 05:47 PM)djhall Wrote:  Yes, your god is evil, so the horrific aspect of it would finding all of humanity in the inescapable grip of a sadist who lied about everything and doesn't give a rats ass about good or love of any of those lies. It is precisely because I do desire a moral existence, and one that values the happiness of other people, and because your god is clearly NOT moral and does not have our best interests at heart, that I find that prospect horrifying. Why would I want to suppress my acknowledgement of good and bad and heap praise on a sadist while he does evil?

Of course, I believe this to be true because I believe deeply in morals that are not culturally relative, and that exist independent of god, and that apply even to him. And he fails, miserably, to live up to the moral standards of even your average ignorant human, let alone serve as some light of moral purity to be followed.

Which brings us right back to the issue at hand.... your assertion that no such moral values can exist without god, that those moral values exist, and therefore we either have no morals or we believe god exists and gave us a moral standard which he immediately failed miserably to live up to.

He fails miserably because He does not condone the evil you love.

If we are being honest here.

Even if none of the passages which you claim demonstrate God as being evil existed, you still would find fault with Him because of who He is. He is God. You are not.

You would still be accountable to Him. So no I am not convinced that you are so holy and righteous that you find God to fail to meet your standard of morality.

If the bible condoned and supported every thing you love doing and thinking and saying and it condoned and supported your views, then you would be first in line holding it up as some book that people should order their lives around.

Because it says you are a sinner and that you need God, you despise it.

This is as it should be.

If the bible, and what you say about god being our moral guide is true, then why have us mere humans stopped doing some of the things that were deemed to be moral in the book?
Did your god change its mind about slavery? Any god worth its salt would never change its mind because it would be an admission of being wrong. Humans don't own slaves anymore so we must have come up with that idea on our own without, or in spite of spookies holy word. You of course know that an all knowing, all seeing entity could never ever be wrong about anything.

Go sit down, think about what you're saying and who you're saying it to and realize you're wrong or at the very least brainwashed.
Don't be too hard on yourself, lots of people have fallen for the same fairy tales, just be happy you found out in time to change your way of thinking before it's too late to enjoy your life while you're still alive.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes pablo's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: