A Deconstruction of the Moral Argument
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12-05-2014, 07:22 PM
RE: A Deconstruction of the Moral Argument
Hoping to find kneeling men, apparently.

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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12-05-2014, 07:28 PM
RE: A Deconstruction of the Moral Argument
(12-05-2014 07:14 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(12-05-2014 07:10 PM)pablo628 Wrote:  So you don't believe the book is true, you are more prone to interpreting what it says to fit your ideas?
I'd ask you to enlighten me but I really think I know what it means and, you're getting kinda boring.

Great!

And guess what?

Even if the Bible made no mention of slavery, you would still find fault with it.

You would still find a reason why it is bunk, garbage, trash, ridiculous, fairy tale, insanity, etc. etc.

You would still think it stupid for saying you were a sinner who is in need of a Saviour.

There are plenty of reasons!
Finally! You're starting to understand!
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12-05-2014, 07:36 PM
RE: A Deconstruction of the Moral Argument
(12-05-2014 07:28 PM)pablo628 Wrote:  
(12-05-2014 07:14 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Great!

And guess what?

Even if the Bible made no mention of slavery, you would still find fault with it.

You would still find a reason why it is bunk, garbage, trash, ridiculous, fairy tale, insanity, etc. etc.

You would still think it stupid for saying you were a sinner who is in need of a Saviour.

There are plenty of reasons!
Finally! You're starting to understand!

Exactly!!!!!

I would say the reasons are as many or as little as one needs in order to dismiss it!

I imagine some dismiss it because it was written originally in Hebrew Aramaic and Greek! Or because it is old or because it is too long or too short or has too much poetry in it. Or too little poetry!

I can think of a thousand just lying here in bed!
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12-05-2014, 07:37 PM
RE: A Deconstruction of the Moral Argument
(12-05-2014 07:36 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(12-05-2014 07:28 PM)pablo628 Wrote:  There are plenty of reasons!
Finally! You're starting to understand!

Exactly!!!!!

I would say the reasons are as many or as little as one needs in order to dismiss it!

I imagine some dismiss it because it was written originally in Hebrew Aramaic and Greek! Or because it is old or because it is too long or too short or has too much poetry in it. Or too little poetry!

I can think of a thousand just lying here in bed!

Or complete bullshit. you forgot that one.
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12-05-2014, 07:37 PM
RE: A Deconstruction of the Moral Argument
(12-05-2014 07:22 PM)rampant.a.i. Wrote:  Hoping to find kneeling men, apparently.

All men kneel. Not all kneel before God.
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12-05-2014, 07:46 PM
RE: A Deconstruction of the Moral Argument
(12-05-2014 07:37 PM)pablo628 Wrote:  
(12-05-2014 07:36 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Exactly!!!!!

I would say the reasons are as many or as little as one needs in order to dismiss it!

I imagine some dismiss it because it was written originally in Hebrew Aramaic and Greek! Or because it is old or because it is too long or too short or has too much poetry in it. Or too little poetry!

I can think of a thousand just lying here in bed!

Or complete bullshit. you forgot that one.

Or that one too!

When I was an atheist I did not need a reason. I did not feel I had to have a justification for not accepting the bible. I just never cared nor did I care about those who did care about it. I lived and let live. I spoke neither for it nor against it because I was too busy with other things. When I was an atheist, I had a different train of thought than what many here have. I did what I wanted to and allowed others the same opportunity. I never felt compelled to whine and cry about what religious people were doing. I did not think it ultimately mattered what anyone did so why should I waste the few years I had sticking my nose in other people's business?

Some of you seem to think your whining and crying actually matters.
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12-05-2014, 07:56 PM
RE: A Deconstruction of the Moral Argument
(12-05-2014 07:46 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(12-05-2014 07:37 PM)pablo628 Wrote:  Or complete bullshit. you forgot that one.

Or that one too!

When I was an atheist I did not need a reason. ... I did not think it ultimately mattered what anyone did so why should I waste the few years I had sticking my nose in other people's business?

Some of you seem to think your whining and crying actually matters.


"religion should not simply be tolerated but should be countered, criticized, and exposed by rational argument wherever its influence arises."

Religion will lead to the inevitable downfall of mankind.

We aren’t trying to sell you on anything, we have a close personal relationship with reality, not jesus, or any other mythical BS religious figure. Religion is the ultimate scam and while some of it is benign in nature, it is the radical "my view of my god is right and all of you heathens who believe otherwise better get on board" mentality that bothers me. it is the sneaky little financing of a politician who they support to get him/her in office so that their crazy agendas can be quietly slid into laws that guide this country. Those are the people we fight. If someone wants to whip a rubber chicken around their head while dancing in a counter clock wise circle quacking like a duck makes them feel closer to their mythical god, then by all means, knock yourself out...in the privacy of your own home or in a private venue with like-minded individuals. Don’t shove the rubber chicken down my throat; don’t manipulate politicians to modify laws that affect us all, based on your views. Get me?

Now for everyone else, we are providing a free service...information to counter the misinformation being shoveled onto America by the theists. Feel free to open your mind and learn about the world around you, or not.

I went from christian, to spiritualist, to agnostic to atheist, the more I learned the less I believed. I have spent my life learning, I have much to learn yet, as we all do. I freely admitted my biggest challenge is to neutrally review new information without bias, it is a struggle. Especially after 28 years of research. The problem isnt even religion per se, the true problem is faith. I dont know the answers, I just know that religion doesn't have the answers either and faith is a failed epistemology.

For many years I was of the "I don't believe, live and let live, why would I care what someone else believes" type of outlook. But I feel that religion slithers its way into politics and shapes the laws of this land which affect everyone, it uses fear to brainwash people, and even more despicably, children into believing absolute BS. It is evil to the core, and the ultimate pyramid scheme..money goes up, nothing of value comes down. it preys on the sick, the gullible, the ignorant, the elderly and the uneducated. Its supporters financially and politically use their organized power to block stem cell research that could lead to the curing of deadly diseases, to block a woman's right to abort, to teach creationism in public schools, etc etc..

This is the reason why as an educated intelligent human being it is my moral responsibility to fight the corrosive creep of religion where ever I find it. To look the other way is to imply by inaction that it is ok, and religion is anything but ok. The moderate religious followers who go to church, seek out fellowship, civil community outreach and support the homeless and poor are great factors of religion, but we don't need religion to have those in society. There are secular organizations that do the same thing...like foundation beyond belief. Just my opinion of course. But this is why I have been self-jarred into more assertive action versus religion.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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12-05-2014, 08:06 PM
RE: A Deconstruction of the Moral Argument
(12-05-2014 07:56 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(12-05-2014 07:46 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Or that one too!

When I was an atheist I did not need a reason. ... I did not think it ultimately mattered what anyone did so why should I waste the few years I had sticking my nose in other people's business?

Some of you seem to think your whining and crying actually matters.


"religion should not simply be tolerated but should be countered, criticized, and exposed by rational argument wherever its influence arises."

Religion will lead to the inevitable downfall of mankind.

We aren’t trying to sell you on anything, we have a close personal relationship with reality, not jesus, or any other mythical BS religious figure. Religion is the ultimate scam and while some of it is benign in nature, it is the radical "my view of my god is right and all of you heathens who believe otherwise better get on board" mentality that bothers me. it is the sneaky little financing of a politician who they support to get him/her in office so that their crazy agendas can be quietly slid into laws that guide this country. Those are the people we fight. If someone wants to whip a rubber chicken around their head while dancing in a counter clock wise circle quacking like a duck makes them feel closer to their mythical god, then by all means, knock yourself out...in the privacy of your own home or in a private venue with like-minded individuals. Don’t shove the rubber chicken down my throat; don’t manipulate politicians to modify laws that affect us all, based on your views. Get me?

Now for everyone else, we are providing a free service...information to counter the misinformation being shoveled onto America by the theists. Feel free to open your mind and learn about the world around you, or not.

I went from christian, to spiritualist, to agnostic to atheist, the more I learned the less I believed. I have spent my life learning, I have much to learn yet, as we all do. I freely admitted my biggest challenge is to neutrally review new information without bias, it is a struggle. Especially after 28 years of research. The problem isnt even religion per se, the true problem is faith. I dont know the answers, I just know that religion doesn't have the answers either and faith is a failed epistemology.

For many years I was of the "I don't believe, live and let live, why would I care what someone else believes" type of outlook. But I feel that religion slithers its way into politics and shapes the laws of this land which affect everyone, it uses fear to brainwash people, and even more despicably, children into believing absolute BS. It is evil to the core, and the ultimate pyramid scheme..money goes up, nothing of value comes down. it preys on the sick, the gullible, the ignorant, the elderly and the uneducated. Its supporters financially and politically use their organized power to block stem cell research that could lead to the curing of deadly diseases, to block a woman's right to abort, to teach creationism in public schools, etc etc..

This is the reason why as an educated intelligent human being it is my moral responsibility to fight the corrosive creep of religion where ever I find it. To look the other way is to imply by inaction that it is ok, and religion is anything but ok. The moderate religious followers who go to church, seek out fellowship, civil community outreach and support the homeless and poor are great factors of religion, but we don't need religion to have those in society. There are secular organizations that do the same thing...like foundation beyond belief. Just my opinion of course. But this is why I have been self-jarred into more assertive action versus religion.

you're living in pure unadulterated denial. humanity is on a collision course with destruction whether people are religious or not. Cosmically speaking, very soon humanity as we know it will cease to exist, even if all of the four billion or so religious suddenly became atheists, our fate is inevitable. There is no life beyond death. there is nothing.

So you can walk around speaking out against religion for the few years you have left and then you die. Then those who listened to your speeches will die too. a long procession of humans dying like maggots in a trash heap.

the sun will burn out long before the universe experiences heat death or either the big crunch.

if you want to be a real trooper, a real champ, then talk about this when you talk against religion. tell the whole truth.
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12-05-2014, 08:08 PM (This post was last modified: 12-05-2014 08:12 PM by Reltzik.)
RE: A Deconstruction of the Moral Argument
..... aaaaaaand he's managed to change the topic again. Slippery like an eel. Anyhow, since he's not talking to me any more, I'll talk to the rest of you.

I'm starting to think JW doesn't actually know what he's talking about.

... no, actually, I've thought that for a while.

What I'm starting to think is that he doesn't even understand what he's trying to say.

He's put forward, frequently, an argument that hinges on the concept of objectivity. When challenged on it, he has only managed to copy-pasta from Craig's website. (CRAIG! Have SOME dignity, why don't you! I mean, copy-pasta from Aquinas, or Descartes, or Plantinga... anyone but CRAIG! .... or Ham or either Hovind. Or Comfort. Or that Growing Pains clown. ... okay, so Craig's not the only truly awful choice. But STILL!) When this didn't actually resolve my question about what JW actually meant by the words he was typing out onto his screen, he... just ignored the question. It's like he doesn't actually have a comprehension of what he's writing.

I mean, isn't this something that he SHOULD know? DIDN'T he have an actual thought he was trying to convey here? I mean, it's not like he's just regurgitating other Theistic arguments without processing them first... that'd be spamming under forum rules, which is a banning offense. So no, that can't be it, we've never had a theist like that in here. No, he must have had SOME thought or comprehension of his own he was trying to convey (even if someone else had it first... eh, nothing new under the sun), something that he is capable of clarifying even if it isn't directly addressed on Craig's site. So, why can't he produce? Why is he running away from the thread topic faster than a punk teen with a '22 who suddenly realized that the SWAT team whose APC he was taking potshots at had taken offense?
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12-05-2014, 08:10 PM
RE: A Deconstruction of the Moral Argument
Viva l'apathie! Sleepy

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