A Good Christian
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22-03-2013, 01:34 AM
A Good Christian
Is there any such thing in all of your eyes?

I believe in a God, have read the Bible a few times, I go to church, I understand other religions and have accepted Christianity, I believe in an afterlife, believe that Jesus was the Messiah, I am acceptant that not all of you can believe, but I know you will eventually, I give back to the community and I believe in prayer.

So what's wrong with having a religion?
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22-03-2013, 02:46 AM
RE: A Good Christian
How do you know that I will "eventually" believe in religion, can you prove it? Also do you think that your religion should be taught in science classes, and if so should all religions be taught in science classes along with it? And who should front the bill?
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22-03-2013, 02:52 AM
RE: A Good Christian
(22-03-2013 01:34 AM)Shawc27 Wrote:  Is there any such thing in all of your eyes?

I believe in a God, have read the Bible a few times, I go to church, I understand other religions and have accepted Christianity, I believe in an afterlife, believe that Jesus was the Messiah, I am acceptant that not all of you can believe, but I know you will eventually, I give back to the community and I believe in prayer.

So what's wrong with having a religion?

Why would you believe in an afterlife when Jesus did not, and the Hebrews did not, and St. Paul did not for everyone ? Why is it Christians know nothing about the origins of their own cult ? Weeping

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22-03-2013, 03:19 AM (This post was last modified: 22-03-2013 03:23 AM by Free Thought.)
RE: A Good Christian
(22-03-2013 01:34 AM)Shawc27 Wrote:  Is there any such thing in all of your eyes?

I believe in a God, have read the Bible a few times, I go to church, I understand other religions and have accepted Christianity, I believe in an afterlife, believe that Jesus was the Messiah, I am acceptant that not all of you can believe, but I know you will eventually, I give back to the community and I believe in prayer.

So what's wrong with having a religion?


Yeah, no. Unless I start seeing evidence in favour of gods, I'm not going anywhere near the establishments of said without the intent of demolition.


You ask what is wrong with religion?

I was never raised in a religion, I was taught to analyse pretty much everything (something I do to an almost comical degree as a result), so I have only one direct feud with religion.

It imprisons people. Sometimes literally, sometimes figuratively, but always mentally. More often than not, the children of believers are indoctrinated and told to not question, lest ye risk the wrath of deity "X", usually with eternal hell-fire. It's not the parents faults of course; they are only doing what they were indoctrinated into. Some break out of their indoctrination, others live their lives in a dead-zones, unable to make the final step out, but realising the irrationality. Others remain captive for the rest of their lives. For some, the indoctrination never took, but they'll likely still be pressured or put out by family (a disturbing reality).

As far as I am currently concerned: Religion is best left in the dust as Humanity progresses to better things. The only reason that we may keep it should be a reminder to never go back to when it controlled us.

don't get me wrong, I am perfectly fine with religious people, so long as they are not what I affectionately call 'Bible-Bashers", it is the religions they are apart of where my ire rests, and with those who willingly, knowingly spread misinformation to gain followers, especially when children are involved.

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22-03-2013, 03:52 AM
RE: A Good Christian
1. I think that if I have to prove my faith, then I've kind of missed Jesus' teachings. But a do like the ontological argument as a philosophical way at looking at a God.

2. No the Hebrews did not believe in an afterlife, but just because Jesus was a Jew did not mean that he believed in ALL their traditions. The word only entered the human story for 3 reasons. One, to let the word of God become known. Two, to pass down the second gift of God. And three, to bring believers into eternal life, without eternal life, the Gospels are essentially blasphemy.

3. Totally accepting of that, you've weighed it up an atheism has come out on top, however, why is it I seem to be discriminated against, especially on the online community, because I have looked at all the possibilities and chosen religion as the answer? I hate to play the minority card when there are so many of us, but it seems that on social network sites I seem to be outnumbered.
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22-03-2013, 04:06 AM
RE: A Good Christian
(22-03-2013 03:52 AM)Shawc27 Wrote:  1. I think that if I have to prove my faith, then I've kind of missed Jesus' teachings. But a do like the ontological argument as a philosophical way at looking at a God.

2. No the Hebrews did not believe in an afterlife, but just because Jesus was a Jew did not mean that he believed in ALL their traditions. The word only entered the human story for 3 reasons. One, to let the word of God become known. Two, to pass down the second gift of God. And three, to bring believers into eternal life, without eternal life, the Gospels are essentially blasphemy.

3. Totally accepting of that, you've weighed it up an atheism has come out on top, however, why is it I seem to be discriminated against, especially on the online community, because I have looked at all the possibilities and chosen religion as the answer? I hate to play the minority card when there are so many of us, but it seems that on social network sites I seem to be outnumbered.

re your #2, (ahem)...
You just actually made that up. You actually have no real evidence for anything of the sort. You have no clue what he, (if he even existed) actually thought about, or what his intentions were. He was, (if he existed), just one of many many of the wandering apocalyptic preachers running around at the time, doing magic and miracles, like all the others. You drank the cool-aide. You didn't really think you were going to come here and have anyone actually buy that crap did you ? BTW, the 4 gospels, (the ones of many many that made it into the canon), are not blasphemy. They are faith documents by believers to remind themsleves what they already believed. You do know I hope, there are "liberal" factions of Christian scholars who totally disagree with your fundie junk, including the fact that Jesus believed in eternal life. Why would St. Paul NOT believe in it. He didn't, I hope you know. Or are you just another fundie who has never actually studied scripture ?

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22-03-2013, 04:28 AM
RE: A Good Christian
(22-03-2013 01:34 AM)Shawc27 Wrote:  ...
So what's wrong with having a religion?

Nothing...

If...

You keep it to yourself. Your own personal thang.

It's the child abuse and the deaths in the name of <pick a god, any god> that I have a problem with.

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22-03-2013, 04:51 AM
RE: A Good Christian
(22-03-2013 04:06 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(22-03-2013 03:52 AM)Shawc27 Wrote:  1. I think that if I have to prove my faith, then I've kind of missed Jesus' teachings. But a do like the ontological argument as a philosophical way at looking at a God.

2. No the Hebrews did not believe in an afterlife, but just because Jesus was a Jew did not mean that he believed in ALL their traditions. The word only entered the human story for 3 reasons. One, to let the word of God become known. Two, to pass down the second gift of God. And three, to bring believers into eternal life, without eternal life, the Gospels are essentially blasphemy.

3. Totally accepting of that, you've weighed it up an atheism has come out on top, however, why is it I seem to be discriminated against, especially on the online community, because I have looked at all the possibilities and chosen religion as the answer? I hate to play the minority card when there are so many of us, but it seems that on social network sites I seem to be outnumbered.

re your #2, (ahem)...
You just actually made that up. You actually have no real evidence for anything of the sort. You have no clue what he, (if he even existed) actually thought about, or what his intentions were. He was, (if he existed), just one of many many of the wandering apocalyptic preachers running around at the time, doing magic and miracles, like all the others. You drank the cool-aide. You didn't really think you were going to come here and have anyone actually buy that crap did you ? BTW, the 4 gospels, (the ones of many many that made it into the canon), are not blasphemy. They are faith documents by believers to remind themsleves what they already believed. You do know I hope, there are "liberal" factions of Christian scholars who totally disagree with your fundie junk, including the fact that Jesus believed in eternal life. Why would St. Paul NOT believe in it. He didn't, I hope you know. Or are you just another fundie who has never actually studied scripture ?

No I have studied many scriptures, my point was, that WITHOUT eternal life, then the Gospels are blasphemous, also I think you should read the conclusion of John's Gospel, that may give you some insight.
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22-03-2013, 04:52 AM
RE: A Good Christian
(22-03-2013 01:34 AM)Shawc27 Wrote:  I am acceptant that not all of you can believe, but I know you will eventually
Before I answer your overall question, I have to address this. What you mean to say is that you believe we will eventually. I haven't read anyone else's comments, but I can guess that what you mean here is that when we die; we will go to Heaven and be confronted with the Lord, and on that day we will believe. If that is what you meant, then you must be aware that that is merely your belief. It is not a fact. You may think it is, but it's not. What's more, while a general god is up for debate; what is abundantly clear is that YOUR god - the god of Christianity - patently, demonstrably, does not exist. I'm sorry to start this off with that, but it needed to be said.

Either way, that is your belief. And though it may be fact to you, that does not mean it is a fact of reality. So please, in the future, refrain from asserting it as such.

In any case, are there good christians? Yes. I know a few of them. One woman in particular is an extremely devout christian who found love and comfort in what she believes is God after she was brutally raped by an intruder in her home. (Funny how God always seems to pop up when people are not in their right minds) She is the type of christian who has that glassy (some would say "deluded") look in her eyes that devoted believers often express. With her bright eyes, she will often speak about the "good will" trips she and her fellow church friends will go on; setting up stands around town and giving food to those in need. I haven't spoken to her in some time, but when I did, she was always, always willing to drop everything she was doing at a moment's notice and let me confide in her about my problems or concerns. Often, she would top off our conversations with a prayer, which I politely accepted, because I could see in her eyes that she truly believed it would help me, and she wanted to call upon God to assist me. Yes, there are good christians out there. Just as there are good muslims and good satanists and, oh yes, even good atheists.

But "what's so wrong with religion"? What's wrong is the fact that it is an irrational, faith-based, demonstrably false and intellectually disruptive plague upon our society. It sets belief in unverified sky-beings above verifiable, observable, testable, REtestable and consistent evidence. Even a religion at its absolute best is holding back the proper intellectual function of its sufferer. It is a psychological detriment. A cancer of thought upon the brain of Man. (Someone make that a book title. And I expect full credit)

Please don't misunderstand me; religion is not the only culprit in this battle. Religion is merely the collective result of many different irrationalities. That is the true enemy. Irrationality. It is something which rears its ugly head in the form of anything from horoscopes to voo-doo; from homeopathic water to the Vatican. Irrationality is the ultimate offender with which many of us take issue, and we will address it in whichever form it wishes to manifest. The reason we attack religion much of the time is that, again, religion is a large collection of that irrationality. Thus, it is a much larger, much more influential target. It has the power to move nations and even determine a man's fate. It can bring down buildings and force non-believers from their devout familes and out of their towns.

And I say, once again, that despite its monumental influence; it is demonstrably, undeniably false. Thus, all of its atrocities - both big and small - are entirely in vain. That is why we take issue with it. Were you not blinded by its influence, you would too. Any good person would.

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22-03-2013, 05:02 AM
RE: A Good Christian
(22-03-2013 04:52 AM)Misanthropik Wrote:  
(22-03-2013 01:34 AM)Shawc27 Wrote:  I am acceptant that not all of you can believe, but I know you will eventually
Before I answer your overall question, I have to address this. What you mean to say is that you believe we will eventually. I haven't read anyone else's comments, but I can guess that what you mean here is that when we die; we will go to Heaven and be confronted with the Lord, and on that day we will believe. If that is what you meant, then you must be aware that that is merely your belief. It is not a fact. You may think it is, but it's not. What's more, while a general god is up for debate; what is abundantly clear is that YOUR god - the god of Christianity - patently, demonstrably, does not exist. I'm sorry to start this off with that, but it needed to be said.

Either way, that is your belief. And though it may be fact to you, that does not mean it is a fact of reality. So please, in the future, refrain from asserting it as such.

In any case, are there good christians? Yes. I know a few of them. One woman in particular is an extremely devout christian who found love and comfort in what she believes is God after she was brutally raped by an intruder in her home. (Funny how God always seems to pop up when people are not in their right minds) She is the type of christian who has that glassy (some would say "deluded") look in her eyes that devoted believers often express. With her bright eyes, she will often speak about the "good will" trips she and her fellow church friends will go on; setting up stands around town and giving food to those in need. I haven't spoken to her in some time, but when I did, she was always, always willing to drop everything she was doing at a moment's notice and let me confide in her about my problems or concerns. Often, she would top off our conversations with a prayer, which I politely accepted, because I could see in her eyes that she truly believed it would help me, and she wanted to call upon God to assist me. Yes, there are good christians out there. Just as there are good muslims and good satanists and, oh yes, even good atheists.

But "what's so wrong with religion"? What's wrong is the fact that it is an irrational, faith-based, demonstrably false and intellectually disruptive plague upon our society. It sets belief in unverified sky-beings above verifiable, observable, testable, REtestable and consistent evidence. Even a religion at its absolute best is holding back the proper intellectual function of its sufferer. It is a psychological detriment. A cancer of thought upon the brain of Man. (Someone make that a book title. And I expect full credit)

Please don't misunderstand me; religion is not the only culprit in this battle. Religion is merely the collective result of many different irrationalities. That is the true enemy. Irrationality. It is something which rears its ugly head in the form of anything from horoscopes to voo-doo; from homeopathic water to the Vatican. Irrationality is the ultimate offender with which many of us take issue, and we will address it in whichever form it wishes to manifest. The reason we attack religion much of the time is that, again, religion is a large collection of that irrationality. Thus, it is a much larger, much more influential target. It has the power to move nations and even determine a man's fate. It can bring down buildings and force non-believers from their devout familes and out of their towns.

And I say, once again, that despite its monumental influence; it is demonstrably, undeniably false. Thus, all of its atrocities - both big and small - are entirely in vain. That is why we take issue with it. Were you not blinded by its influence, you would too. Any good person would.

Hey man, thanks for the reply,

You said that all religion is undeniably false, is there really not even the most minute of chances that there may, just may, be a God and an afterlife? And if the answer is yes, have a look at the ontological argument, it's quite reasonable and may help broaden your views.

Also you said I was blinded by the influence of religion? I'm sorry to sound like a bit of a whinge, but I do kind of take offence to this. You assume that I have not considered Atheism, or any other religions, or simply someone who blindly follows without question. I just don't like these assumptions atheists seem to make about anyone who is religious, do you think that's fair?

Thanks
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