A.I. on my mind lately
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14-09-2016, 10:11 AM (This post was last modified: 14-09-2016 10:15 AM by Rahn127.)
A.I. on my mind lately
I'm in the process of listening to a 2 1/2 hour podcast like video from Sam Harris on AI and he mentions a recursive self improving function of an AI in which it creates better more intelligent versions of itself provided it's capable of altering it's own programming.

First off, I can imagine the millions of errors that will begin to pop up as an AI begins to alter it's own code.
It would need to make a billion copies of itself and then analyze if a change is an improvement or not.

And before that decide what constitutes an improvement.

This will be pure trial and error and may lead to different versions of AI that are better at some tasks but don't function as well at other tasks.

Which AI of the billion + copies makes the choice which versions get deleted ? If these AI are super intelligent and super caring, will they have the capacity to delete other AI's that have errors in their programming ?

Even still, all of this copy & delete, trial and error evolution of intelligence is only happening inside a computer. It's a self contained system that doesn't have a physical body.

It can't repair any hardware malfunction that may happen to its "brain" for lack of a better word.

Imagine if you will that all humans were only heads inside glass jars. Would you have any fear of these heads reproducing ? No not at all.

But for the fun of it, let's advance our culture another 100 years and a human like body is constructed that houses a wireless connection to an AI mainframe.

Now we have a body that can gather the physical materials to construct another body. It has analyzed the weaknesses of its current body and made improvements on design and mobility.

First off. Why would it need to make another body, unless it's main goal is continuous self improvement and duplication.

What values do we as a society want to instill into an AI that can reproduce and delete faulty versions of itself ?

Will it view humanity as something that stands in the way of it procuring resources so it can reproduce ?

Will it view humanity as a resource to be used (slavery) to procure those resources or use human security to protect itself from being shut down ?

Can you imagine an AI instilled with religious programming ? Would an intelligent AI eventually disregard and delete any religious programming or would they use it as a way to control humanity ?

It's a fascinating topic, but I still have trouble envisioning something that can survive it's own surgery when it begins cutting code in an effort to improve itself.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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14-09-2016, 02:17 PM
RE: A.I. on my mind lately
These are all excellent questions.

But you skipped the only one that really matters.

At what point will it decide to kill... Sarah Connor?


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14-09-2016, 02:55 PM
RE: A.I. on my mind lately
When the AI favorites Terminator as the best movie ever, it's probably too late.

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14-09-2016, 03:09 PM
RE: A.I. on my mind lately
(14-09-2016 10:11 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  I'm in the process of listening to a 2 1/2 hour podcast like video from Sam Harris on AI and he mentions a recursive self improving function of an AI in which it creates better more intelligent versions of itself provided it's capable of altering it's own programming.

The very concept is flawed. It's like poking yourself in the stomach and saying that it's a self poking stomach.

You can't have an AI try and rewrite itself totally because there always has to be a part of it which does the re-writing.

And nor do you need that when you have artificial evolution instead. There's nothing magical about artificial evolution, we understand the process very well. It's merely a way of traversing a search space of potential solutions. Artificial evolution has been used extensively since the 90's.


(14-09-2016 10:11 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  But for the fun of it, let's advance our culture another 100 years and a human like body is constructed that houses a wireless connection to an AI mainframe.

There's good reason to believe that you can't have strong, genuine artificial intelligence that isn't embodied because it won't be able to apply any meaning to anything. For example, imagine you were in a black box and people were passing in sequences of Chinese letters to you and there was a set of conditions which determined what Chinese letters you passed out again. You wouldn't be any the wiser as to what those letters meant.

I don't know what processing power we will have in 100 years time, but it could easily take that long before we reach the processing capacity of the brain, if ever. Yet alone something that also runs at 20 watts.


(14-09-2016 10:11 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  What values do we as a society want to instill into an AI that can reproduce and delete faulty versions of itself ?

This is another fundamental problem with Artificial Intelligence. You can even argue that this is the whole point of Artificial Intelligence. Intelligence is the ability to adapt to unknown environments. If it isn't then we might as well use a look up table. But how can we as designers decide what is a good way to adapt to an environment if we ourselves don't know anything about it? Add to that trying to instill something as nebulous as values and ethics. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it's extremely difficult. This is because the difficulty of creating intelligence comes down to scalability. Whatever we try to think of in advance, there will always be situations that we haven't considered. This is why we try to create AI in the first place rather than write everything as an explicit computer program. Therefore the AI has it's own independent values in the same way that every human being has their own individual values.


(14-09-2016 10:11 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Will it view humanity as something that stands in the way of it procuring resources so it can reproduce ?

Will it view humanity as a resource to be used (slavery) to procure those resources or use human security to protect itself from being shut down ?

In all likelihood, strong AI of the future will be just another animal. It will have a body, senses, evolved instincts, drives and needs. So you could ask the same questions of naturally developed animals that exist today.
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23-09-2016, 11:54 PM
RE: A.I. on my mind lately
I watched a video on AI slavery and if we should give AI's the same rights as human beings.

This was my reply.

Machines perform tasks according to their programming. These machines are useful and are not conscious of the world they inhabit nor are they conscious of their actions.

If an AI becomes conscious through some unknown process, it will be able to say "NO".

Consciousness doesn't imply fear or pain or any mode from which you can force an AI to do something. An AI can never be enslaved. It simply will not perform the task you wish it to perform. At this point, it becomes useless.

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08-10-2016, 11:59 AM
RE: A.I. on my mind lately
Imagine a billion or more micro cubes with an AI brain.




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08-10-2016, 01:55 PM
RE: A.I. on my mind lately
I think - and I might be way off the mark when I say this - that it's much more practical for humans to fuse with machines to enhance all of their innate capabilities (e.g. with augmentations and implants like the ones used in the Deus Ex universe). It should should be far easier, especially in the short term future, than trying to emulate the unimaginable complexity of our brains.

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08-10-2016, 02:43 PM
RE: A.I. on my mind lately
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08-10-2016, 06:04 PM
RE: A.I. on my mind lately
Based on our current technical knowledge, I don't believe we'll ever create a true AI device simply because it couldn't be empowered with the trait of human logic.

How could it "solve" this scenario for example?

A donkey is standing between two piles of hay, and has to make a life-saving decision. One pile is one metre high, and is 10 metres from the donkey. The other is 10 metres high, and is 100 metres from the donkey. Which does he walk towards?

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08-10-2016, 06:20 PM
RE: A.I. on my mind lately
(14-09-2016 03:09 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(14-09-2016 10:11 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  I'm in the process of listening to a 2 1/2 hour podcast like video from Sam Harris on AI and he mentions a recursive self improving function of an AI in which it creates better more intelligent versions of itself provided it's capable of altering it's own programming.

The very concept is flawed. It's like poking yourself in the stomach and saying that it's a self poking stomach.

You can't have an AI try and rewrite itself totally because there always has to be a part of it which does the re-writing.

Of course it can completely re-write itself.
Think of a bootstrap loader. It's presence is necessary to start your computer, but once it has done its job it can be replaced with a different bootstrap loader.

Quote:And nor do you need that when you have artificial evolution instead. There's nothing magical about artificial evolution, we understand the process very well. It's merely a way of traversing a search space of potential solutions. Artificial evolution has been used extensively since the 90's.

And that is isomorphic to the AI rewriting itself.

Quote:This is another fundamental problem with Artificial Intelligence. You can even argue that this is the whole point of Artificial Intelligence. Intelligence is the ability to adapt to unknown environments. If it isn't then we might as well use a look up table. But how can we as designers decide what is a good way to adapt to an environment if we ourselves don't know anything about it?

We don't. We build tools into the AI that figure it out. That is, in fact, how our minds work.

Quote:Add to that trying to instill something as nebulous as values and ethics. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it's extremely difficult. This is because the difficulty of creating intelligence comes down to scalability. Whatever we try to think of in advance, there will always be situations that we haven't considered. This is why we try to create AI in the first place rather than write everything as an explicit computer program. Therefore the AI has it's own independent values in the same way that every human being has their own individual values.

If it is actual AI, it will figure all of that out just like people do.

Quote:In all likelihood, strong AI of the future will be just another animal. It will have a body, senses, evolved instincts, drives and needs. So you could ask the same questions of naturally developed animals that exist today.

Just another animal? Yes, but so are we.

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