A Message to the Vatican...FUCK YOU!
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24-05-2013, 09:23 PM (This post was last modified: 25-05-2013 02:59 AM by Mark Fulton.)
A Message to the Vatican...FUCK YOU!
The new pope's recent patronizing comments about how good atheists will be "redeemed" too has inspired me to post a response...

Mr Pope and colleagues,

you have the audacity to claim that your interpretations of the Bible are the answers to the world’s problems, yet you used to burn people for reading it in their native tongue. Your ideas, your “truths,” are fossils; nothing more than the fabricated remnants of a superstitious, credulous, bygone age. You have no proof of what you claim to be your beliefs. Your book has been debunked and is immoral. You’ve supposedly been studying it your entire life, yet you claim to never question your faith. How can you NOT have seen the contradictions, fallacies, the immorality and other bullshit in the bible? I think the intelligent ones amongst you are lying about your real beliefs.

Any cursory study of the verbose bulls and encyclicals published in the name of popes over the last 800 years reveals that your organization hasn’t cared about anything other than its own power and prestige, yet you still pompously preach to people. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_papal_bulls, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encyclical - Important_papal_encyclicals).

You should keep your self-promoting, antiquated ideas private, and out of earshot of children, but you don’t. You use your intricate network to poison the world through schools and the media. Children and students need to be prepared for real life and to learn to think. They deserve good, reliable sources of information and a rational approach to problem solving. You take that away, so you can create clones who recite dogma without question, bow down to you, subsidize you, and turn to your imaginary god for help. That’s immoral.

How much longer will you pollute the world with your faith? When will too much money be enough? Your wealth is obscene. Are any of you ever going to become open-minded enough to be real, not pretend, humanists? I doubt you will, as the system you’re part of would destroy you first, as may have happened with Pope John Paul 1 (http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/1...PaulI.pdf, http://www.prose-n-poetry.com/display_work/10583/ , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFewRC3oUX4).

Your evil regime has defied the odds by surviving so long, but your day of reckoning is coming. Millions of informed people around the world agree with me. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOamsF5r3TE).

There are many obstacles to peace and happiness in today’s world, but atheism isn’t one of them, nor is pre-marital sex, contraception, feminism, homosexuality, science, modernism, not going to church or not praying. One of the biggest problems out there… is, in fact, YOUR CHURCH! ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhtj6DqNwgQ ) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvVMrFjre_w).

Shove your church, your bible, your redemption, heaven and hell somewhere where the sun don't shine. The world has had enough of your bullshit.
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24-05-2013, 09:41 PM
RE: A Message to the Vatican
[Image: papal_bull.jpg]

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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24-05-2013, 09:50 PM
RE: A Message to the Vatican
As a 'recovering' catholic I thank you.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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25-05-2013, 04:06 PM
RE: A Message to the Vatican
Yay, VERY nice rant! Well, not NICE nice, but... you know what I mean.

That said, I still have to view this as a step in the right direction for the papacy. One of many, many, many steps to be taken. I'm not going to condemn the Pope for saying that atheists who do good deeds can be good people. Sure, that should be a no-brainer, but in the present religious environment it needed to be said anyway.

Could it be a cynical PR campaign? Not on the part of the pope, I believe; this kind of reaching out across religious lines has been his brand for decades. On the part of the Church at large for selecting this particular cardinal as pope, quite possibly it IS cynical. But when the pope says it and honestly means it, it's more than just a facade or cheap PR. Catholics hear, take notice, and modify their attitudes. Not all, but a great many. And that is the stuff actual reform is made of. So no, I don't think it's just cynical PR.

The main question I'd have to pose to those who hate the Catholic Church as an institution (and I'm kinda halfway there myself) is, what change would you like to see? Given that they're not actually going to disband, that their distant past evils were committed largely by people now dead and gone (some of the more recent perpetrators are still around, but neither the present pope nor his colleagues actually burned anyone for reading the Bible in native vernacular), and that their doctrine has a lot of inertia and changing it would have to be an incremental process, what would amount to "doing right" on their part? If the institution is evil, how can it reform itself? If I see it doing something that falls under this umbrella, the last thing I'm going to do is chew them out for it.

(To be clear, there are some things the present pope's done that I do object to: Continuing the oppression of the church's liberal wing for focusing on social issues other than abortion, for example. But his recent comments on atheism? No objection at all.)

"If I ignore the alternatives, the only option is God; I ignore them; therefore God." -- The Syllogism of Fail
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25-05-2013, 04:20 PM
RE: A Message to the Vatican...FUCK YOU!
I didn't listen to the Pope when I was a Catholic...I wouldn't know what he was saying now if it wasn't for you guys.

Hmmm....Atheist messengers for the Vatican....dayum.

I'm not anti-social. I'm pro-solitude. Sleepy
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25-05-2013, 04:42 PM
RE: A Message to the Vatican
(25-05-2013 04:06 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  Yay, VERY nice rant! Well, not NICE nice, but... you know what I mean.

That said, I still have to view this as a step in the right direction for the papacy. One of many, many, many steps to be taken. I'm not going to condemn the Pope for saying that atheists who do good deeds can be good people. Sure, that should be a no-brainer, but in the present religious environment it needed to be said anyway.

Could it be a cynical PR campaign? Not on the part of the pope, I believe; this kind of reaching out across religious lines has been his brand for decades. On the part of the Church at large for selecting this particular cardinal as pope, quite possibly it IS cynical. But when the pope says it and honestly means it, it's more than just a facade or cheap PR. Catholics hear, take notice, and modify their attitudes. Not all, but a great many. And that is the stuff actual reform is made of. So no, I don't think it's just cynical PR.

The main question I'd have to pose to those who hate the Catholic Church as an institution (and I'm kinda halfway there myself) is, what change would you like to see? Given that they're not actually going to disband, that their distant past evils were committed largely by people now dead and gone (some of the more recent perpetrators are still around, but neither the present pope nor his colleagues actually burned anyone for reading the Bible in native vernacular), and that their doctrine has a lot of inertia and changing it would have to be an incremental process, what would amount to "doing right" on their part? If the institution is evil, how can it reform itself? If I see it doing something that falls under this umbrella, the last thing I'm going to do is chew them out for it.

(To be clear, there are some things the present pope's done that I do object to: Continuing the oppression of the church's liberal wing for focusing on social issues other than abortion, for example. But his recent comments on atheism? No objection at all.)

What changes would I like to see?

- Re the sexual abuse of children...
The contrived, weak excuses and obstructions of justice must cease. The heart of the issue should be addressed by removing proven priest abusers from their offices, and details of all allegations handed over to civil authorities. Child molesters must be identified, punished, and excluded from further contact with children. Most bishops don’t have the will (obviously) to do that, and none of them have the expertise, or the power to make it happen. Secular authorities must be involved in every case, past and present. The Catholic Church should stop funding convicted offenders legal costs. All this should happen not just to avoid future lawsuits, but because the church ought to genuinely care about the children. They should also initiate a dialogue with all past victims, and pay for their treatment (they do have the funds for this). They should beg forgiveness for the damage their cover-ups have caused, without qualification, so that it means something. These things aren’t happening because their pride, their love of power, and the protection of billions of dollars’ worth of assets are, it seems, their highest priorities.

- Re when they try to preach to the world...
The Vatican’s track record contradicts their claim that they preach an infallible moral code. Consider their past attitude to slavery, eunuchs, heretics, witches, the printing press, astronomy, evolution, anesthetics, vaccinations, Nazis, Jews, Muslims, and Protestants. They’ve been forced to revise their attitudes as the generations have gone by to keep some credibility in an increasingly tolerant and fair world. If they were really pillars of ethical wisdom, they wouldn’t have made so many mistakes.

They’ve failed to learn humility from their own history. They’re unashamedly dogmatic about their present day beliefs and rules, as if they’ve always been correct. It’s probable that in the future they’ll reverse their thinking about birth control, homosexuality, women priests, premarital sex, genetic engineering, and stem cell research in the same way they’ve flipped their opinions on these other issues.

- Re Catholic schools...
I think a fundamental feature of an exceptional education is to give children a mental picture of their world that’s in tune with reality. Children should also be taught how, not what, to think. They need encouragement to explore. They should be told that they control their own destiny, and that they must be open-minded. The catholic church undermines all of this. To teach children to find solutions by praying to an imaginary judgmental sky buddy is a subtle form of child abuse.

I think parents should question the use of repetition in prayers and hymns. Surely if the teaching is that terrific, it should sell itself, and be taught without trickery.

So they should stop preaching in schools.

- They should stop making saints...
Today’s Catholics should be aware of one activity that has rendered much money to the Vatican's coffers: canonizing saints. Throughout history the grounds for beatification have often been theatrical. Kings, queens, the nobility, warlords and soldiers were sanctified as saints whenever it suited the Vatican. Ignacio de Loloya with his army of Jesuits, Dimingo de Guzman and his Dominican friars, and Jose M Escriva, who founded Opus Dei, each started societies that helped prevent Catholicism from floundering, and have been beatified for their efforts.

The late Pope John Paul II was history's greatest saint-maker; 484 new saints appeared during his papacy. All other popes in the twentieth century canonized a total of only ninety-eight. New saints keep the cash registers sizzling hot.

Canonization means television rights, free advertising, visits to shrines, book sales, memento sales etc. People like saints, even if they don’t like their priests, bishops, or their pope, and are gullible enough to pay the Vatican for creating them.
John Paul moved a step closer to becoming a saint himself in 2011 when his successor attributed a miracle to him and announced that he’ll be beatified. In centuries past, the Vatican made a fortune trafficking indulgences; today they’re doing the same selling saints.

I could go on, but I've ranted enough for one post....
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25-05-2013, 04:42 PM (This post was last modified: 25-05-2013 04:57 PM by Full Circle.)
RE: A Message to the Vatican
(25-05-2013 04:06 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  The main question I'd have to pose to those who hate the Catholic Church as an institution (and I'm kinda halfway there myself) is, what change would you like to see? Given that they're not actually going to disband, that their distant past evils were committed largely by people now dead and gone (some of the more recent perpetrators are still around, but neither the present pope nor his colleagues actually burned anyone for reading the Bible in native vernacular), and that their doctrine has a lot of inertia and changing it would have to be an incremental process, what would amount to "doing right" on their part? If the institution is evil, how can it reform itself?

Mark had a nice list going:

"There are many obstacles to peace and happiness in today’s world, but atheism isn’t one of them, nor is pre-marital sex, contraception, feminism, homosexuality, science, modernism,..."

Did you know that the Holy Catholic Church believes there is no salvation outside the Church?

But if you really want your hair to catch on fire and your eyes to melt out of your head try reading through this list of 255 Catholic dogmas and 102 Certain Truths not yet defined by the Magisterium: Shocking

The 255 Infallibly Declared Dogmas of the Catholic Faith

1. God, our Creator and Lord, can be known with certainty, by the natural light of reason from created things.
2. God’s existence is not merely an object of natural rational knowledge, but also an object of supernatural faith.
3. God’s Nature is incomprehensible to men.
4. The blessed in Heaven posses an immediate intuitive knowledge of the Divine Essence.
5. The Immediate Vision of God transcends the natural power of cognition of the human soul, and is therefore supernatural.
6. The soul, for the Immediate Vision of God, requires the light of glory.
7. God’s Essence is also incomprehensible to the blessed in Heaven.
8. The Divine Attributes are really identical among themselves and with the Divine Essence.
9. God is absolutely perfect.
10. God is actually infinite in every perfection.
11. God is absolutely simple.
12. There is only One God.
13. The One God is, in the ontological sense, The True God.
14. God possesses an infinite power of cognition.
15. God is absolute Veracity.
16. God is absolutely faithful.
17. God is absolute ontological Goodness in Himself and in relation to others.
18. God is absolute Moral Goodness or Holiness.
19. God is absolute Benignity.
20. God is absolutely immutable.
21. God is eternal.
22. God is immense or absolutely immeasurable.
23. God is everywhere present in created space.
24. God’s knowledge is infinite.
25. God knows all that is merely possible by the knowledge of simple intelligence (scientia simplicis intelligentiae).
26. God knows all real things in the past, the present and the future (Scientia visionis).
27. By knowledge of vision (scientia visionis) God also foresees the free acts of the rational creatures with infallible certainty.
28. God’s Divine will is infinite.
29. God loves Himself of necessity, but loves and wills the creation of extra-Divine things, on the other hand, with freedom.
30. God is almighty.
31. God is the Lord of the heavens and of the earth.
32. God is infinitely just.
33. God is infinitely merciful.
34. In God there are Three Persons, the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. Each of the Three Persons possesses the one (numerical) Divine Essence.
35. In God there are two Internal Divine Processions.
36. The Divine Persons, not the Divine Nature, are the subject of the Internal Divine processions (in the active and in the passive sense).
37. The Second Divine Person proceeds from the First Divine Person by Generation, and therefore is related to Him as Son to a Father.
38. The Holy Ghost proceeds from the Father and from the Son as from a Single Principle through a Single Spiration.
39. The Holy Ghost does not proceed through generation but through spiration.
40. The Relations in God are really identical with the Divine Nature.
41. The Three Divine Persons are in One Another.
42. All the ad extra Activities of God are common to all Three Persons.
43. All that exists outside God was, in its whole substance, produced out of nothing by God.
44. God was moved by His Goodness to create the world.
45. The world was created for the Glorification of God.
46. The Three Divine Persons are one single, common Principle of the Creation.
47. God created the world free from exterior compulsion and inner necessity.
48. God has created a good world.
49. The world had a beginning in time.
50. God alone created the World.
51. God keeps all created things in existence.
52. God through His providence protects and guides all that He has created.
53. The first man was created by God.
54. Man consists of two essential parts--a material body and a spiritual soul.
55. The rational soul is per se the essential form of the body.
56. Every human being possesses an individual soul.
57. God has conferred on man a supernatural Destiny.
58. Our first parents, before the Fall, were endowed with sanctifying grace.
59. They were also endowed with donum immortalitatis, i.e., the gift of bodily immortality.
60. Our first parents in paradise sinned grievously through transgression of the Divine probationary commandment.
61. Through the sin our first parents lost sanctifying grace and provoked the anger and the indignation of God.
62. Our first parents became subject to death and to the dominion of the Devil.
63. Adam’s sin is transmitted to his posterity, not by imitation, but by descent.
64. Original sin is transmitted by natural generation.
65. In the state of original sin man is deprived of sanctifying grace and all that this implies, as well as of the preternatural gifts of integrity.
66. Souls who depart this life in the state of original sin are excluded from the Beatific Vision of God.
67. In the beginning of time God created spiritual essences (angels) out of nothing.
68. The nature of angels is spiritual.
69. The secondary task of the good angels is the protection of men and care for their salvation.
70. The Devil possesses a certain dominion over mankind by reason of Adam’s sin.
71. Jesus Christ is the True God and True Son of God.
72. Christ assumed a real body, not an apparent body.
73. Christ assumed not only a body but also a rational soul.
74. Christ was truly generated and born of a daughter of Adam, the Virgin Mary.
75. The Divine and the human natures are united hypostatically in Christ, that is, joined to each other in one Person.
76. Christ Incarnate is a single, that is, a sole Person. He is God and man at the same time.
77. The God-Logos is connected with the flesh by an inner, physical or substantial unification. Christ is not the bearer of God, but is God really.
78. The human and the divine activities predicated of Christ in Holy Writ and in the Fathers may not be divided between two persons or hypostases, the Man-Christ and the God-Logos, but must be attributed to the one Christ, the Logos become Flesh. It is the Divine Logos, who suffered in the flesh, was crucified, died, and rose again.
79. The Holy Virgin is the Mother of God since she truly bore the God-Logos become Flesh.
80. In the Hypostatic Union each of the two natures of Christ continues unimpaired, untransformed and unmixed with the other.
81. Each of the two natures in Christ possesses its own natural will and its own natural mode of operation.
82. The Hypostatic Union of Christ’s human nature with the Divine Logos took place at the moment of conception.
83. The Hypostatic Union will never cease.
84. The Hypostatic Union was effected by the Three Divine Persons acting in common.
85. Only the Second Divine Person became Man.
86. Not only as God but also as man Jesus Christ is the natural Son of God.
87. The God-Man Jesus Christ is to be venerated with one single mode of Worship, the absolute Worship of Latria which is due to God alone.
88. Christ’s Divine and Human characteristics and activities are to be predicated of the one Word Incarnate.
89. Christ was free from all sin, from original sin as well as from all personal sin.
90. Christ’s human nature was passible (capable of sensation & suffering).
91. The Son of God became man in order to redeem men.
92. Fallen man cannot redeem himself.
93. The God-Man Jesus Christ is a High Priest.
94. Christ offered Himself on the Cross as a true and proper sacrifice.
95. Christ by His Sacrifice on the Cross has ransomed us and reconciled us with God.
96. Christ did not die for the predestined only.
97. Christ’s Atonement does not extend to the fallen angels.
98. Christ, through His Passion and Death, merited reward from God.
99. After His Death, Christ’s soul, which was separated from His Body, descended into the underworld.
100. On the third day after His Death Christ rose gloriously from the dead.
101. Christ ascended Body and Soul into Heaven and sits at the right hand of the Father.
102. Mary is truly the Mother of God.
103. Mary was conceived without stain of Original sin.
104. Mary conceived by the Holy Ghost without the co-operation of man.
105. Mary bore her Son without any violation of her virginal integrity.
106. Also after the Birth of Jesus Mary remained a Virgin.
107. Mary was a Virgin before, during and after the Birth of Jesus Christ.
108. Mary was assumed body and soul into Heaven.
109. There is a supernatural intervention of God in the faculties of the soul, which precedes the free act of the will.
110. There is a supernatural influence of God in the faculties of the soul which coincides in time with man’s free act of will.
111. For every salutary act internal supernatural grace of God (gratia elevans) is absolutely necessary.
112. Internal supernatural grace is absolutely necessary for the beginning of faith and of salvation.
113. Without the special help of God the justified cannot persevere to the end in justification.
114. The justified person is not able for his whole life long to avoid all sins, even venial sins, without the special privilege of the grace of God.
115. Even in the fallen state, man can, by his natural intellectual power, know religious and moral truths.
116. For the performance of a morally good action Sanctifying Grace is not required.
117. In the state of fallen nature it is morally impossible for man without Supernatural Revelation, to know easily, with absolute certainty and without admixture of error, all religious and moral truths of the natural order.
118. Grace cannot be merited by natural works either de condigno or de congruo.
119. God gives all the just sufficient grace (gratia proxime vel remote sufficiens) for the observation of the Divine Commandments.
120. God, by His Eternal Resolve of Will, has predetermined certain men to eternal blessedness.
121. God, by an Eternal Resolve of His Will, predestines certain men, on account of their foreseen sins, to eternal rejection.
122. The Human Will remains free under the influence of efficacious grace, which is not irresistible.
123. There is a grace which is truly sufficient and yet remains inefficacious (gratia vere et mere sufficiens).
124. The sinner can and must prepare himself by the help of actual grace for the reception of the grace by which he is justified.
125. The justification of an adult is not possible without Faith.
126. Besides faith, further acts of disposition must be present.
127. Sanctifying grace sanctifies the soul.
128. Sanctifying grace makes the just man a friend of God.
129. Sanctifying grace makes the just man a child of God and gives him a claim to the inheritance of Heaven.
130. The three Divine or Theological Virtues of Faith, Hope and Charity are infused with Sanctifying grace.
131. Without special Divine Revelation no one can know with the certainty of faith, if he be in the state of grace.
132. The degree of justifying grace is not identical in all the just.
133. Grace can be increased by good works.
134. The grace by which we are justified may be lost, and is lost by every grievous [mortal, serious] sin.
135. By his good works the justified man really acquires a claim to supernatural reward from God.
136. A just man merits for himself through each good work an increase of sanctifying grace, eternal life (if he dies in a state of grace) and an increase of heavenly glory.
137. The Church was founded by the God-Man Jesus Christ.
138. Our Redeemer Himself conserves with divine power the society founded by Him, the Church.
139. Christ is the Divine Redeemer of His Body, the Church.
140. Christ founded the Church in order to continue His work of redemption for all time.
141. Christ gave His Church a hierarchical constitution.
142. The powers bestowed on the Apostles have descended to the bishops.
143. Christ appointed the Apostle Peter to be the first of all the Apostles and to be the visible head of the whole Church, by appointing him immediately and personally to the primacy of jurisdiction.
144. According to Christ’s ordinance, Peter is to have successors in his Primacy over the whole Church and for all time.
145. The successors of Peter in the Primacy are the bishops of Rome.
146. The Pope possesses full and supreme power of jurisdiction over the whole Church, not merely in matters of faith and morals, but also in Church discipline and in the government of the Church.
147. The Pope is infallible when he speaks ex cathedra.
148. By virtue of Divine Right the bishops possess an ordinary power of government over their dioceses.
149. Christ is the Head of the Church.
150. In the final decision on doctrines concerning faith and morals the Church is infallible.
151. The primary object of the Infallibility is the formally revealed truths of Christian Doctrine concerning faith and morals.
152. The totality of the Bishops is infallible, when they, either assembled in general council or scattered over the earth, propose a teaching of faith or morals as one to be held by all the faithful.
153. The Church founded by Christ is unique and one.
154. The Church founded by Christ is holy.
155. The Church founded by Christ is catholic.
156. The Church founded by Christ is apostolic.
157. Membership of the Church is necessary for all men for salvation.
158. It is permissible and profitable to venerate the Saints in Heaven, and to invoke their intercession.
159. It is permissible and profitable to venerate the relics of the Saints.
160. It is permissible and profitable to venerate images of the Saints.
161. The living Faithful can come to the assistance of the Souls in Purgatory by their intercessions (suffrages).
162. The Sacraments of the New Covenant contain the grace which they signify, and bestow it on those who do not hinder it.
163. The Sacraments work ex opere operato (simply by being done).
164. All the Sacraments of the New Covenant confer sanctifying grace on the receivers.
165. Three Sacraments, Baptism, Confirmation and Holy Orders, imprint a character, that is, an indelible spiritual mark, and for this reason cannot be repeated.
166. The Sacramental Character is a spiritual mark imprinted on the soul.
167. The Sacramental Character continues at least until the death of its bearer.
168. All the Sacraments of the New Covenant were instituted by Jesus Christ.
169. There are Seven Sacraments of the New Law.
170. The Sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for the salvation of mankind.
171. For the valid dispensing of the Sacraments it is necessary that the minister accomplish the Sacramental Sign in the proper manner.
172. The minister must further have the intention at least of doing what the Church does.
173. In the case of adult recipients moral worthiness is necessary for the worthy or fruitful reception of the Sacraments.
174. Baptism is a true Sacrament instituted by Jesus Christ.
175. The materia remota of the Sacrament of Baptism is true and natural water.
176. Baptism confers the grace of justification.
177. Baptism effects the remission of all punishments of sin, both the eternal and the temporal.
178. Eve if it be unworthily received, valid Baptism imprints on the soul of the recipient an indelible spiritual mark, the Baptismal Character, and for this reason, the Sacrament cannot be repeated.
179. Baptism by water (Baptismus fluminis) is, since the promulgation of the Gospel, necessary for all men without exception, for salvation.
180. Baptism can be validly administered by anyone.
181. Baptism can be received by any person in the wayfaring state who is not already baptised.
182. The Baptism of young children is valid and licit.
183. Confirmation is a true Sacrament properly so-called.
184. Confirmation imprints on the soul an indelible spiritual mark, and for this reason, cannot be repeated.
185. The ordinary minister of Confirmation is the Bishop alone.
186. The Body and Blood of Jesus Christ are truly, really and substantially present in the Eucharist.
187. Christ becomes present in the Sacrament of the Altar by the transformation of the whole substance of the bread into His Body and the whole substance of the wine into His Blood.
188. The Accidents of bread and wine continue after the change of the substance.
189. The Body and the Blood of Christ together with His Soul and His Divinity and therefore the Whole Christ are truly present in the Eucharist.
190. The Whole Christ is present under each of the two Species.
191. When either consecrated species is divided the Whole Christ is present in each part of the species.
192. After the Consecration has been completed the Body and Blood are permanently present in the Eucharist.
193. The Worship of Adoration (latria) must be given to Christ present in the Eucharist.
194. The Eucharist is a true Sacrament instituted by Christ.
195. The matter for the consummation of the Eucharist is bread and wine.
196. For children before the age of reason the reception of the Eucharist is not necessary for salvation.
197. Communion under two forms is not necessary for any individual member of the Faithful, either by reason of Divine precept or as a means of salvation.
198. The power of consecration resides in a validly consecrated priest only.
199. The Sacrament of the Eucharist can be validly received by every baptized person in the wayfaring state, including young children.
200. For the worthy reception of the Eucharist the state of grace as well as the proper and pious disposition are necessary.
201. The Holy Mass is a true and proper Sacrifice.
202. In the Sacrifice of the Mass, Christ’s Sacrifice on the Cross is made present, its memory is celebrated, and its saving power is applied.
203. In the Sacrifice of the Mass and in the Sacrifice of the Cross the Sacrificial Gift and the Primary Sacrificing Priest are identical; only the nature and mode of the offering are different.
204. The Sacrifice of the Mass is not merely a sacrifice of praise and thanksgiving, but also a sacrifice of expiation and impetration.
205. The Church has received from Christ the power of remitting sins committed after Baptism.
206. By the Church’s Absolution sins are truly and immediately remitted.
207. The Church’s power to forgive sins extends to all sin without exception.
208. The exercise of the Church’s power to forgive sins is a judicial act.
209. The forgiveness of sins which takes place in the Tribunal of Penance is a true and proper Sacrament, which is distinct from the Sacrament of Baptism.
210. Extra-sacramental justification is effected by perfect sorrow only when it is associated with the desire for the Sacrament (votum sacramenti).
211. Contrition springing from the motive of fear is a morally good and supernatural act.
212. The Sacramental confession of sins is ordained by God and is necessary for salvation.
213. By virtue of Divine ordinance all grievous sins (mortal, serious) according to kind and number, as well as those circumstances which alter their nature, are subject to the obligation of confession.
214. The confession of venial sins is not necessary but is permitted and is useful.
215. All temporal punishments for sin are not always remitted by God with the guilt of sin and the eternal punishment.
216. The priest has the right and the duty, according to the nature of the sins and the ability of the penitent, to impose salutary and appropriate works of satisfaction.
217. Extra-sacramental penitential works, such as the performance of voluntary penitential practices and the patient bearing of trials sent by God, possess satisfactory value.
218. The form of the Sacrament of Penance consists in the words of Absolution.
219. Absolution, in association with the acts of the penitent, effects the forgiveness of sins.
220. The principal effect of the Sacrament of Penance is the reconciliation of the sinner with God.
221. The Sacrament of Penance is necessary for salvation to those who, after Baptism, fall into grievous sin.
222. The sole possessors of the Church’s Power of Absolution are the bishops and priests.
223. Absolution given by deacons, clerics of lower rank, and laymen is not Sacramental Absolution.
224. The Sacrament of Penance can be received by any baptized person, who, after Baptism, has committed a grievous or venial sin.
225. The Church possesses the power to grant Indulgences.
226. The use of Indulgences is useful and salutary to the Faithful.
227. Extreme Unction is a true and proper Sacrament instituted by Christ.
228. The remote matter of Extreme Unction is oil.
229. The form consists in the prayer of the priest for the sick person which accompanies the anointing.
230. Extreme Unction gives the sick person sanctifying grace in order to arouse and strengthen him.
231. Extreme Unction effects the remission of grievous sins still remaining and of venial sins.
232. Extreme Unction sometimes effects the restoration of bodily health, if this be of spiritual advantage.
233. Only bishops and priests can validly administer Extreme Unction.
234. Extreme Unction can be received only by the Faithful who are seriously ill.
235. Holy Order is a true and proper Sacrament which was instituted by Christ.
236. The consecration of priests is a Sacrament.
237. Bishops are superior to priests.
238. The Sacrament of Order confers sanctifying grace on the recipient.
239. The Sacrament of Order imprints a character on the recipient.
240. The Sacrament of Order confers a permanent spiritual power on the recipient.
241. The ordinary dispenser of all grades of Order, both the sacramental and the non-sacramental, is the validly consecrated bishop alone.
242. Marriage is a true and proper Sacrament instituted by God.
243. From the sacramental contract of marriage emerges the Bond of Marriage, which binds both marriage partners to a lifelong indivisible community of life.
244. The Sacrament of Matrimony bestows Sanctifying Grace on the contracting parties.
245. In the present order of salvation death is a punishment for sin.
246. All human beings subject to original sin are subject to the law of death.
247. The souls of the just which in the moment of death are free from all guilt of sin and punishment for sin, enter into Heaven.
248. The bliss of heaven lasts for all eternity.
249. The degree of perfection of the beatific vision granted to the just is proportioned to each one’s merits.
250. The souls of those who die in the condition of personal grievous sin enter Hell.
251. The punishment of Hell lasts for all eternity.
252. The souls of the just which, in the moment of death, are burdened with venial sins or temporal punishment due to sins, enter Purgatory.
253. At the end of the world Christ will come again in glory to pronounce judgment.
254. All the dead will rise again on the last day with their bodies.
255. Christ, on His second coming, will judge all men.


The 102 Certain Truths Not Yet Defined by the Magisterium

1. With Christ and the Apostles General Revelation concluded.
2. Our natural knowledge of God in this world is not as immediate, intuitive cognition, but a mediate, abstractive knowledge, because it is attained through the knowledge of creatures.
3. Our knowledge of God here below is not proper but analogical.
4. God is absolute Beauty.
5. God’s knowledge is purely and simply actual.
6. God’s knowledge is subsistent.
7. God’s knowledge is comprehensive.
8. God’s knowledge is independent of extra-divine things.
9. The primary and formal object of the Divine Cognition is God Himself.
10. The Son proceeds from the Intellect of the Father by way of Generation.
11. The Holy Ghost proceeds from the will or from the mutual love of the Father and of the Son.
12. The Father sends the Son: the Father and the Son send the Holy Ghost.
13. The world is the work of the Divine Wisdom.
14. God was free to create this world or any other.
15. The whole human race stems from one single human pair.
16. Every individual soul was immediately created out of nothing by God.
17. Adam received sanctifying grace not merely for himself, but for all his posterity.
18. God set a supernatural final end for the angels, the immediate vision of God, and endowed them with sanctifying grace in order that they might achieve this end.
19. The angels were subjected to a moral testing.
20. The evil spirits (demons) were created good by God; they became evil through their own fault.
21. The primary task of the good angels is the glorification and the service of God.
22. Every one of the faithful has his own special guardian angel from baptism.
23. The Hypostatic Union was never interrupted.
24. The Blood in the Living Body of Jesus Christ is an integral constituent part of human nature, immediately, not merely mediately, united with the Person of the Divine Logos.
25. Just as Latria is due to the whole Human nature of Christ, so is it due to the individual parts of His nature.
26. Christ’s soul possessed the immediate vision of God from the first moment of its existence.
27. Christ’s human knowledge was free from positive ignorance and from error.
28. By reason of His endowment with the fullness of created habitual grace, Christ’s soul is also accidentally holy.
29. Christ’s humanity, as instrument of the Logos, possesses the power of producing supernatural effects.
30. Christ’s soul was subject to sensual emotions.
31. God was not compelled to redeem mankind by either an internal or an external compulsion.
32. Christ is the Supreme Prophet promised in the Old Covenant and the absolute teacher of humanity.
33. Christ merited for Himself the condition of exaltation (Resurrection, Transfiguration of the body, Ascension into Heaven).
34. Christ merited all supernatural graces received by fallen mankind.
35. The underworld is the place of detention for the souls of the just of the pre-Christian era, the so-called vestibule of hell (limbus Patrum).
36. Mary gave the Redeemer, the Source of all graces, to the world, and in this way she is the channel of all graces.
37. Mary, the Mother of God, is entitled to the Cult of Hyperdulia.
38. Actual Grace internally and directly enlightens the understanding and strengthens the will.
39. The Grace of faith is not necessary for the performance of a morally good action.
40. Actual Grace is not necessary for the performance of a morally good action.
41. In the condition of fallen nature it is morally impossible for man without restoring grace (gratia sanans) to fulfill the entire moral law and to overcome all serious temptations for any considerable period of time.
42. Grace cannot be obtained by petitions deriving from purely natural prayer.
43. Man of himself cannot acquire any positive disposition for grace.
44. God gives all innocent unbelievers (infideles negativi) sufficient grace to achieve eternal salvation.
45. Sanctifying Grace is a supernatural state of being which is infused by God, and which permanently inheres in the soul.
46. Sanctifying grace is not a substance, but a real accident, which inheres in the soul-substance.
47. Supernatural grace is a participation in the divine nature.
48. Sanctifying grace makes the just man a Temple of the Holy Ghost.
49. The loss of sanctifying grace always involves the loss of Charity.
50. The Church is the Mystical Body of Jesus Christ.
51. By reason of her purpose and the means she uses to effect it the Church is a supernatural spiritual society.
52. The Church is a perfect society.
53. The Church is indefectible, that is, she remains and will remain the Institution of Salvation, founded by Christ, until the end of the world.
54. The secondary object of the Infallibility is truths of the Christian teaching on faith and morals, which are not formally revealed, but which are closely connected with the teaching of Revelation.
55. The Church founded by Christ is an external visible commonwealth.
56. Not only those members who are holy but the sinners also belong to the Church.
57. The members of the Church are those who have validly received the Sacrament of Baptism and who are not separated from the unity of the confession of the Faith, and from the unity of the lawful communion of the Church.
58. The members of the Kingdom of God on earth and in the other world sanctified by the redeeming grace of Christ are united in a common supernatural life with the Head of the Church and with one another.
59. By intercessory prayer the Faithful on earth can procure gifts from God for one another.
60. The faithful on earth can, by their good works performed in the state of grace, render atonement for one another.
61. The Sacraments of the New Covenant are effective signs of grace instituted by Christ.
62. Christ instituted all the Sacraments immediately and personally.
63. Christ fixed the substance of the Sacraments. The Church has no power to alter them.
64. God can communicate grace even without the Sacraments.
65. The primary minister of the Sacraments is the God-Man Jesus Christ.
66. The validity and efficacy of the Sacrament is independent of the minister’s orthodoxy and state of grace.
67. For the validity of the Sacraments in the case of adult recipients the intention of receiving the Sacrament is necessary.
68. The Old Testament Sacraments wrought, ex opere operato, not grace, but merely an external lawful purity.
69. The materia proxima of the Sacrament of Baptism is the ablution, by physical contact, of the body with water.
70. The form of Baptism consists in the words of the minister which accompany it and more closely determine it.
71. As a Sacrament of the living, Confirmation effects (per se) an increase of Sanctifying Grace.
72. The extraordinary minister of Confirmation is a priest on whom this full power is conferred by the common law or by a special apostolic indult.
73. Confirmation can be received by any baptized person who is not already confirmed.
74. The repetition of Confirmation is invalid and grievously sinful.
75. The Sacramental Accidents retain their physical reality after the change of the substance.
76. The Sacramental Accidents continue without a subject in which to inhere.
77. The Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist is a mystery of Faith.
78. The form of the Eucharist consists in Christ’s Words of institution, uttered at the Consecration.
79. The Chief fruit of the Eucharist is an intrinsic union of the recipient with Christ.
80. The Eucharist, as food for the soul, preserves and increases the supernatural life of the soul.
81. The Eucharist is a pledge of heavenly bliss and of the future resurrection of the body.
82. For adults the reception of the Eucharist is necessary for salvation with the necessity of precept (necessitate praecepti).
83. The ordinary minister of the Eucharist is the priest; the extraordinary minister is the deacon (with permission of the local Ordinary or of the parish priest for some weighty reason).
84. Those sins which are already forgiven directly by the Church’s Power of the Keys are a sufficient object of confession.
85. The source of Indulgences is the Church’s treasury of satisfaction which consists of superabundant satisfactions of Christ and of the Saints.
86. Extreme Unction is not of itself (per se) necessary for salvation.
87. The consecration of a Bishop is a Sacrament.
88. The Order of Diaconate is a Sacrament.
89. The extraordinary dispenser of the four Minor Orders and of the Order of the Subdiaconate is the presbyter.
90. The Sacrament of Order can be validly received by a baptized person of the male sex only.
91. Marriage was not instituted by Man, but by God.
92. The primary purpose of Marriage is the generation and bringing-up of offspring. The secondary purpose is mutual help and the morally regulated satisfaction of the sex urge.
93. The essential properties of Marriage are unity (monogamy) and indissolubility.
94. Every valid contract of Marriage between Christians is of itself a sacrament.
95. The contracting parties in Matrimony minister the Sacrament each to the other.
96. The Church possesses the sole and exclusive right to make laws and administer justice in the matrimonial affairs of baptized persons, in so far as these affect the Sacrament.
97. With death the possibility of merit or demerit or conversion ceases.
98. The time of Jesus’ second coming is unknown to men.
99. The bodies of the just will be re-modeled and transfigured to the pattern of the risen Christ.
100. The bodies of the godless will rise again in incorruption and immortality, but they will not be transfigured.
101. The present world will be destroyed on the Last Day.
102. The present world will be restored on the Last Day.

After reading this I challange you NOT to have to take multiple aspirins, smoke a joint, wash your eyes out with soap, go screaming naked down the street or poop on a church entrance (amyb we're watching you Yes ).

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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25-05-2013, 08:28 PM
RE: A Message to the Vatican...FUCK YOU!
I don't understand why you're being so hard on the new pope for calling atheists that do good works "redeemed". Would you rather that he follow the actions of former popes and call us "heretics"?

He recognized the value of good acts, and at the same time put certain atheists in a positive light. His words were an attempt to make atheists look favorable to Catholics who would have previously seen us as evil, hell-bound lost causes, but instead Catholics (thanks to his words) may find us to be fine as we are and not in need of their proselytizing.

Can the pope even win with you? Is there anything that he possibly could do to satisfy you? You've blamed him personally here for things that he didn't necessarily do -- "burning people for reading [the bible] in their native tongue", "using his intricate network to poison the world through schools and the media", and "creating clones who recite dogma without question". This smells of prejudice, which I suppose is why he already lost in your eyes before he even opened his mouth.

If past popes had been like him, then Catholicism would probably not be the "evil regime" that it is today. I'm proud of him showing the rational reasoning that led him to see atheists for the good people they are (in the cases where that is actually true) and for not assuming that all atheists are cruel, Christian-hating militants as many less-rational Christians still do... just because some of us are.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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25-05-2013, 09:38 PM (This post was last modified: 25-05-2013 09:42 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: A Message to the Vatican...FUCK YOU!
(25-05-2013 08:28 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  I don't understand why you're being so hard on the new pope for calling atheists that do good works "redeemed". Would you rather that he follow the actions of former popes and call us "heretics"?

He recognized the value of good acts, and at the same time put certain atheists in a positive light. His words were an attempt to make atheists look favorable to Catholics who would have previously seen us as evil, hell-bound lost causes, but instead Catholics (thanks to his words) may find us to be fine as we are and not in need of their proselytizing.

Can the pope even win with you? Is there anything that he possibly could do to satisfy you? You've blamed him personally here for things that he didn't necessarily do -- "burning people for reading [the bible] in their native tongue", "using his intricate network to poison the world through schools and the media", and "creating clones who recite dogma without question". This smells of prejudice, which I suppose is why he already lost in your eyes before he even opened his mouth.

If past popes had been like him, then Catholicism would probably not be the "evil regime" that it is today. I'm proud of him showing the rational reasoning that led him to see atheists for the good people they are (in the cases where that is actually true) and for not assuming that all atheists are cruel, Christian-hating militants as many less-rational Christians still do... just because some of us are.

Re
"I don't understand why you're being so hard on the new pope for calling atheists that do good works "redeemed" "

Firstly, because he's patronising. The world doesn't need his approval. He should not be judging the world, the world should be judging the Vatican.

Secondly, it makes no difference if he's a nice guy. He's the head of an organization that historically has brutalized mankind for its own benefit. Today's Islamic terrorists are pussies in comparison to the behavior of the Vatican throughout history. As the Vatican's head he should be cowering in shame for past sins against humanity.

Yes, the Pope could win with me by doing the following ( listed in no particular order. )

- He would have to sell some of their assets and pay for the treatment for all the children that have been sexually and psychologically abused by priests over the last five or six decades. He would have to offer them all financial compensation. As already mentioned, he would have to hand over all the records of pedophile priest offenders to secular authorities.

- He would have to shut down the teaching of Catholicism, with all the psychological and social problems that entails, as truth in schools, and apologize for all the brainwashing and time wasting that has gone on in the past.

- He would have to make an unconditional apology to Jews and Muslims for past atrocities against them.

- He would need to apologize for the Vatican supporting Mussolini and Hitler.

- He would need to apologize to the world for trafficking Nazis out of Germany after the war.

- He would have to make a general apology to the world's women, and acknowledge that the Vatican has suppressed them for close to 1500 years.

- He would have to apologize for all the wars in Europe against Protestants in which 15 million people lost their lives.

- He needs to apologize for the Inquisition and the crusades, and for the selling of indulgences.

- Then he needs to apologize for the brutal murders and brainwashing of native Africans and Americans.

- He would have to apologize to all the homosexuals in the world for the Vatican's homophobia. He needs to unconditionally beg forgiveness from all homosexuals, and actively support gay marriage.

- He should apologize for the Vatican's connections with the mafia and other criminal organizations.

- He would have to apologize to the world for the Vatican's actions in suppressing science, and for keeping the western world in the dark ages.

- He needs to apologize to liberal theologians, philosophers and scientists for holding back the intellectual advancement of mankind.

- He would need to promise to stop promoting prayer as a solution to the world's problems.

- He would need to promise to stop stating that going to church was an answer to the world's problems.

- He could then apologize to all the millions of people in Africa and elsewhere who are suffering from AIDS as a direct result of the Vatican's condemnation of condom use.

- He then needs to admit that he's not God's representative on earth and he's not infallible.

- He needs to apologize to all the world's people for undermining free thinking and individuality.

- He would need to promise to stop suggesting that the expression of sexuality is a sin.

- I would like to see the Vatican using some of their vast resources to do some genuine humanitarian work, rather than just talking about it.

- He should admit that the Bible is a mountain-load of fabricated nonsense, and he should stop promoting it as the truth.

- He should also admit that there was no such thing as a pope Peter in Rome, and that Jesus, if he ever existed, was a Jew, not a Christian.

Only then would some of the evils the Vatican has committed be addressed.
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25-05-2013, 09:44 PM
RE: A Message to the Vatican...FUCK YOU!
Oh, you darn atheists ...
[Image: grumpypope_zpscdeb0436.jpg]
... you write to many words.

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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