A New Crop Of Bigots
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08-04-2013, 05:31 PM
RE: A New Crop Of Bigots
Nah, not bleak, realistic. And I do think it can happen. Just not sure how comfortable I would be making a promise I can't honestly know for sure I'll be able to keep. But who knows what'll happen, when love comes a-knocking Tongue





(Maybe sans the magic carpet ride, that's kinda silly Rolleyes )

Also, sorry about the death part Sad

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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08-04-2013, 05:35 PM
RE: A New Crop Of Bigots
Weird question maybe. Should the monetary/economic rewards, beyond what just happens to be in your huz/wife's accounts when you get married be removed? Ofcourse, in whatever way necessary to allow for your pension. And how does that work? You have a wife to support so your retirement pay is increased?

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08-04-2013, 05:39 PM
RE: A New Crop Of Bigots
(08-04-2013 05:21 PM)Vera Wrote:  (I also have a slight problem with the whole "marriage is forever" idea. Not because I don't believe it can happen, it can; but I also know that no one can be sure how they're going to feel in 1, 5, 10, 30 years. Thus, promising someone you'll love them and be with them until you die, seems a bit dishonest...)

You could also see it as hopeful no?

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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08-04-2013, 05:57 PM (This post was last modified: 08-04-2013 06:05 PM by Vera.)
RE: A New Crop Of Bigots
(08-04-2013 05:39 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  You could also see it as hopeful no?

Okay, I'll stop being flippant just this once (or I'll die trying). Yes, yes I can. The thing is, often in a relationship, esp. a marriage, people make all those promises and declarations of undying love, and at the moment they believe them. And then the sense of security sets in, everyone's happy, life is great. People start taking each other and the other's feelings for granted.

And then one person (or, sometimes both of them) starts to change. Times goes by, that undying love starts to wither and all of a sudden that sense of security is shattered and the more a person's allowed themselves to believe "this is it, we're going to be together forever", the worse it's going to hit them, when they realise it's not going to work out quite that way.

All I'm saying is, people change, feelings change, everything changes. Not always and not necessarily for the worst.





That which is superficial changes
Also that which is profound
the way of thinking changes
Everything in this world changes

The weather changes as the years go by
The shepherd changes his flock
and just as everything changes
the fact that I change it's not in the least strange

The finest diamond changes its brightness
as it travels from hand to hand
the bird changes its nest
So does a lover change the way he feels

The traveler changes his path
even if this proves to be harmful
and just as everything changes
the fact that I change it's not in the least strange

Changes, everything changes

The sun changes its course
to give way to the night
The plant changes and gets dressed in green
during spring

The beast changes its fur
the hair of an old person changes
and just as everything changes
the fact that I change it's not in the least strange

But my love doesn't change
no matter how far away I find myself
neither the memory nor the pain
of my country and my people

What changed yesterday
will have to change tomorrow
Just as I change
in this foreign land

Changes, everything changes

It's also 3am and I've no idea what I'm saying... I think mostly, that we shouldn't take love (and each other) for granted, but rather appreciate it, no matter how long you've been together or whether you've signed a piece of paper. Yeah, I'm pretty sure this is what I'm saying Yes

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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08-04-2013, 06:02 PM (This post was last modified: 08-04-2013 06:15 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: A New Crop Of Bigots
The fuck I should give a shit if same-sex couples want to marry? Why shouldn't they be as miserable as the rest of us? Tongue ... (cowering in a fetal position in the corner in case ManlyGirl reads that, it was a joke, honey, goddam.)

(08-04-2013 05:25 PM)Dom Wrote:  Lol, a bleak view of it. I shared that view and then ended up getting married anyway and having a wonderful marriage til death do us part, in sickness and in health. It would likely have been the same without the papers, but then I wouldn't be getting a pension.

That. It's a legal contract which confers a certain legal status with certain societal benefits primarily to surviving spouses, estate taxes, and end-of-life arrangements. But it ain't all "benefit" like many of the anti-gay marriage arguments make out. If you both are high earners you will end up being subject to the AMT in the USA and end up paying more taxes - the so-called "marriage penalty" tax. I know several high-earning long term stable relationships who are not married specifically for that reason. They are sharp enough to realize that if either partner is diagnosed with a chronic terminal condition they will get married then. But they are betting on the fact that one of them won't just keel over dead.

(08-04-2013 05:35 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  Ofcourse, in whatever way necessary to allow for your pension. And how does that work? You have a wife to support so your retirement pay is increased?

No, decreased. Dude I've worked with going on 30 years now is fixing to retire. He's eligible for full retirement at some 80% or so of his salary, drops to some 60% if he takes "surviving spouse" benefits (and if you don't want surviving spouse benefits your spouse has to agree). Typically married men retirees at my work always have surviving spouse benefits and it's only women who do not. I mean 'cause actuarially it just makes sense, they're gonna outlive us on average.

I went and found the BuzzFeed article. I especially liked photo #4 where the poor girl had to add "between 1 man and 1 woman" as an afterthought. All I could think of when reading her sign was this scene from "Up", poor girl. Big Grin



As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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08-04-2013, 06:14 PM
RE: A New Crop Of Bigots
(08-04-2013 05:57 PM)Vera Wrote:  
(08-04-2013 05:39 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  You could also see it as hopeful no?

Okay, I'll stop being flippant just this once (or I'll die trying). Yes, yes I can.

It's also 3am and I've no idea what I'm saying... I think mostly, that we shouldn't take love (and each other) for granted, but rather appreciate it, no matter how long you've been together or whether you've signed a piece of paper. Yeah, I'm pretty sure this is what I'm saying Yes

I agree with you.
My wife and I joke that our relationship is based on two bedrock foundations...love and fear Yes But the one that is often overlooked and is the glue to the relationship is respect.

Yo no sabia que tu entiendes ó hablas Español. Que interesante. Bonita canción.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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08-04-2013, 06:21 PM
RE: A New Crop Of Bigots
(08-04-2013 06:14 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Yo no sabia que tu entiendes ó hablas Español. Que interesante. Bonita canción.

Não falo, só entendo quase tudo, porque falo português e as duas linguas são bem parecidas. Angel

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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08-04-2013, 06:49 PM
RE: A New Crop Of Bigots
(08-04-2013 05:57 PM)Vera Wrote:  
(08-04-2013 05:39 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  You could also see it as hopeful no?

Okay, I'll stop being flippant just this once (or I'll die trying). Yes, yes I can. The thing is, often in a relationship, esp. a marriage, people make all those promises and declarations of undying love, and at the moment they believe them. And then the sense of security sets in, everyone's happy, life is great. People start taking each other and the other's feelings for granted.

And then one person (or, sometimes both of them) starts to change. Times goes by, that undying love starts to wither and all of a sudden that sense of security is shattered and the more a person's allowed themselves to believe "this is it, we're going to be together forever", the worse it's going to hit them, when they realise it's not going to work out quite that way.

All I'm saying is, people change, feelings change, everything changes. Not always and not necessarily for the worst.





That which is superficial changes
Also that which is profound
the way of thinking changes
Everything in this world changes

The weather changes as the years go by
The shepherd changes his flock
and just as everything changes
the fact that I change it's not in the least strange

The finest diamond changes its brightness
as it travels from hand to hand
the bird changes its nest
So does a lover change the way he feels

The traveler changes his path
even if this proves to be harmful
and just as everything changes
the fact that I change it's not in the least strange

Changes, everything changes

The sun changes its course
to give way to the night
The plant changes and gets dressed in green
during spring

The beast changes its fur
the hair of an old person changes
and just as everything changes
the fact that I change it's not in the least strange

But my love doesn't change
no matter how far away I find myself
neither the memory nor the pain
of my country and my people

What changed yesterday
will have to change tomorrow
Just as I change
in this foreign land

Changes, everything changes

It's also 3am and I've no idea what I'm saying... I think mostly, that we shouldn't take love (and each other) for granted, but rather appreciate it, no matter how long you've been together or whether you've signed a piece of paper. Yeah, I'm pretty sure this is what I'm saying Yes

Ah, firstly people confuse hormonal attraction with love. If that's the case, the card house will come tumbling down.

Changes - very important for growth. A good couple will allow for the changes each will undoubtedly go through. The idea of a partnership is to support one another - no matter what the changes may be.

Another fallacy is that a lot of people think that because they are married, they have to do everything together and like all the same things. That'll never happen, lol. My husband and I did have some interests in common, but most of them we did not share. We both thought it fun to tell each other about our endeavors. We'd give each other input and help each other along. Having different interests brought a lot of stimulation to the relationship. We each grew and evolved over the years, and the marriage got better and better.

If you think you have to change the other person, you're already with the wrong person, or you have the wrong attitude.

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08-04-2013, 07:36 PM (This post was last modified: 08-04-2013 07:45 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: A New Crop Of Bigots
(08-04-2013 06:49 PM)Dom Wrote:  Ah, firstly people confuse hormonal attraction with love. If that's the case, the card house will come tumbling down.

That. Lust ain't love. Lust is under my control, love ain't. Be like HoC giving up his Gwynnies, ain't gonna happen.

(08-04-2013 06:49 PM)Dom Wrote:  Changes - very important for growth. A good couple will allow for the changes each will undoubtedly go through. The idea of a partnership is to support one another - no matter what the changes may be.

That. A proper partnership recognizes the changes without much need of communication at all and accommodates it (within not necessarily explicit yet implicitly agreed upon boundaries, which also could very well change over time).

(08-04-2013 06:49 PM)Dom Wrote:  Another fallacy is that a lot of people think that because they are married, they have to do everything together and like all the same things. That'll never happen, lol. My husband and I did have some interests in common, but most of them we did not share. We both thought it fun to tell each other about our endeavors. We'd give each other input and help each other along. Having different interests brought a lot of stimulation to the relationship. We each grew and evolved over the years, and the marriage got better and better.

And that.

(08-04-2013 06:49 PM)Dom Wrote:  If you think you have to change the other person, you're already with the wrong person, or you have the wrong attitude.

And yet another post from Dom where when I get to the end of my response I realize Girly could've just said, "What she said." ... sigh ...

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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08-04-2013, 07:53 PM
RE: A New Crop Of Bigots
Like abortion, theists fail to realize that we aren't saying babies should get aborted, or in this case, same-sex people SHOULD get married. By allowing same-sex marriage, we are giving them A CHOICE. A choice to do it, and a choice to not to. We are giving them the freedom to choose, and that is what is often overlooked.

Another point is that theists (or homophobes) think that same-sex marriage will affect them, or degrade their society. I have no heard any logical reason how that can happen.

It's also bullshit how they say kids won't be happy, or the parenting won't be optimal if you are in a same-sex relationship. Now, I know I am going to use anecdotal evidence, but when I was in the orphanage, I couldn't wait to get adopted. I didn't care at all if it was by a mom or a dad, by a mom or a mom, or by two dads, or even only one of the two genders. All I wanted was somebody who loves me, and cares about me to take care of me.

This is the reason why I am disgusted at the use of kids in the argument. First of all, each person is different, and thus, their parenting styles are going to vary. One can't accurately judge if same-sex couples are better, or worse than "traditional" couples. Gender is only one factor, it also depends on the willingness to discipline, or the relationships you have with your child or loved one.

Essentially, the reasons why same-sex couples shouldn't be married are long refuted, and just like the theological arguments for the existence of God, they are being spouted off by ignorant, and condescending people who have no clue what the fuck they are actually talking about.

Remember when people said being gay was a choice? That it was unnatural?

Well, scientists, and naturalists have observed many species of animals partaking in homosexual acts... That kinda hints at it being IN NATURE.

... And if it is genetic, does that mean that the homosexual ISN'T created in God's image? I mean, God made him/her homosexual. Why do that? And if it is naturally occurring, why blame condemn it? Why call it an abomination?

This all hints at ignorant men (and I stress men) writing the bible without any of the so called "inspired" hand of God. Honestly, why would God condemn something he put into the kid, without and consent or anything?

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