A Non Scotsman who is Mad at God! Dumbest argument EVER!
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14-11-2012, 10:39 AM (This post was last modified: 14-11-2012 10:42 AM by Denicio.)
Question A Non Scotsman who is Mad at God! Dumbest argument EVER!
A Non Scotsman who is Mad at God!
How do you guys combat the insanity of these arguments?

I have a dear friend that is entrenched in the faith (drank
the PITCHER of Kool Aid)

Ever so often he and I will get into religious debates via
email. He is not the typical Christian that gets mad, feelings hurt or starts
threatening…as I said , we are lifelong friends and can handle a hearty debate.


Over and over he hits on two themes:

1. Not a True Scotsman
2. Mad at God

Here is a snippet from our last email discussion

“Let me reassure you: you were not a "true
Scotsman." I will keep bringing this up as long as we're friends.



I am one, as is my brother, and many other friends in my sphere of Christian
influence. Salvation is not something you can just throw away and
ignore. You know when He has you, and I'm not talking about
"doing" things that Christians are apparently supposed to do (no
matter how much zeal you indeed had).


He argues that folks like Seth, Dan Barker, Jerry Dewitt,
Dan Dennett, myself and countless others were fooling themselves all along and that
ONCE you get Jesus in your heart CORRECTLY..that there is no way to cast him
aside. So he believes we were living in a life of self delusion.


The second thing he brings up is downright comical..and
since his initial claim that I am simply ‘Mad at god’ I continue to ask WHY on
earth is he holding anger and bitterness for Zeus, Odin, Xenu and countless
other gods. His argument fails when
presented with this type of rebuttal. I persistently ask him why he is mad at
these gods? I think he gets my point.


How often do you guys run into these same arguments and how
do you combat them?


Denicio
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14-11-2012, 11:20 AM
RE: A Non Scotsman who is Mad at God! Dumbest argument EVER!
I've only personally experienced the "No True Scotsman" here, but it would pop up from time to time as a Christian "praying" for those who had left the fold. I'm sure I even used that argument back in the day as there was no way I could ever dream that someone who really knew the love of Jesus could just give it all up and turn their back on God. It was just too real to me. Following Christ was not something I did, it was who I was. I was not part of a religion, I was in a relationship with God. But you will never be able to convince another person of what took place in your own mind. As Dan Barker said, "If I wasn't a 'Real' Christian, then no one is." I can say the same thing. In fact, I believe I was a better, more faithful Christian than the majority of theists that poke their noses in here. I never had a weak or nominal faith. I was all in.

And I know you were too. But your friend will never be convinced because he has the evidence on his side...if you were a true Christian, you still would be a Christian because no true Christian would leave the faith.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of Calvinism is that good Atheists do nothing." ~Eric Oh My
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14-11-2012, 11:36 AM
RE: A Non Scotsman who is Mad at God! Dumbest argument EVER!
Apparently he has no clue what theologians actually mean when they say "salvation".
APparently "he has you", means that he references his idea of what he thinks the Jebus business is all about,
as in "when I think of Jebus, I act according to what I think is my best self". THAT is not "salvation".
He has created his own religion ofr himself. That's cool, but he's not really a "Chritian" if that's what he means by "salvation".
I'd push that, and probe to see what he REALLY means when he uses those words.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist
I'm an agnostic. We cannot know if there really is a teapot orbiting the sun.
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14-11-2012, 12:42 PM
RE: A Non Scotsman who is Mad at God! Dumbest argument EVER!
Maybe both arguments are the same.

If he does not believe in Zeus anymore then he was not a true Olympian.

I think he is just saying that you were infected by an inferior god-virus and he and his ilk are the lucky ones.

I would suggest to him that he should test his hypothesis (that he has the true viral infection) by asking him to take a course of antibiotics (antibi(ble)otics) for a week.

If after a week of reading Hume, Hitchens, Dennett etc. he is still of the view that he has the one true Jesus infection... tell him he was not using the right (true) antibiblotics.

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14-11-2012, 12:50 PM
RE: A Non Scotsman who is Mad at God! Dumbest argument EVER!
(14-11-2012 12:42 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Maybe both arguments are the same.

If he does not believe in Zeus anymore then he was not a true Olympian.

I think he is just saying that you were infected by an inferior god-virus and he and his ilk are the lucky ones.

I would suggest to him that he should test his hypothesis (that he has the true viral infection) by asking him to take a course of antibiotics (antibi(ble)otics) for a week.

If after a week of reading Hume, Hitchens, Dennett etc. he is still of the view that he has the one true Jesus infection... tell him he was not using the right (true) antibiblotics.
Unfortunately, the most virulent forms of this disease have become drug-resistant Sadcryface

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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14-11-2012, 12:53 PM
RE: A Non Scotsman who is Mad at God! Dumbest argument EVER!
The only time I have been accused of being mad at God was about a year ago when I was visiting my mother and she asked "Why are you mad at God?" I simply gave a surprised look and asked "How could I be mad at something that doesn't exist?" She then had this look of a light bulb coming on and she changed to a different line of confrontation.

In general though, it has been my experience that no argument works when it comes to something like the claim that you didn't have Jesus in your heart correctly. And, back when I was a believer, it likely wouldn't have worked with me either. You're probably better off trying to sow some seeds of doubt with the things that helped change your own mind rather than confronting specific points like that one directly.

"We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes." --Gene Roddenberry
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14-11-2012, 12:57 PM
RE: A Non Scotsman who is Mad at God! Dumbest argument EVER!
(14-11-2012 12:50 PM)Vera Wrote:  
(14-11-2012 12:42 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Maybe both arguments are the same.

If he does not believe in Zeus anymore then he was not a true Olympian.

I think he is just saying that you were infected by an inferior god-virus and he and his ilk are the lucky ones.

I would suggest to him that he should test his hypothesis (that he has the true viral infection) by asking him to take a course of antibiotics (antibi(ble)otics) for a week.

If after a week of reading Hume, Hitchens, Dennett etc. he is still of the view that he has the one true Jesus infection... tell him he was not using the right (true) antibiblotics.
Unfortunately, the most virulent forms of this disease have become drug-resistant Sadcryface
The Curse of Evolution. Noooooo!

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! -Brian's mum
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14-11-2012, 01:02 PM
RE: A Non Scotsman who is Mad at God! Dumbest argument EVER!
Quote:The Curse of Evolution. Noooooo!
Looking on the bright side, though (and you should always look on the bright sideWink), science never gives up. And neither does knowledge.

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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14-11-2012, 01:05 PM
RE: A Non Scotsman who is Mad at God! Dumbest argument EVER!
(14-11-2012 01:02 PM)Vera Wrote:  
Quote:The Curse of Evolution. Noooooo!
Looking on the bright side, though (and you should always look on the bright sideWink), science never gives up. And neither does knowledge.
I like that bright side. Although, I would prefer to say it's the practitioners of science who never give up. Or, I suppose one could say its the tenacity of the human spirit that never gives up, writ plain in the works of science.

Or, I could just stop typing and say "Yep. Thanks."

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! -Brian's mum
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14-11-2012, 01:13 PM
RE: A Non Scotsman who is Mad at God! Dumbest argument EVER!
(14-11-2012 01:05 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  I like that bright side. Although, I would prefer to say it's the practitioners of science who never give up. Or, I suppose one could say its the tenacity of the human spirit that never gives up, writ plain in the works of science.

Or, I could just stop typing and say "Yep. Thanks."
Well, duh! 'Course it's the practitioners of science that never stop. The unquenchable thirst for knowledge, the indomitable human spirit and all that jazz.

(I'd be mighty scared if science started progressing all on its own Shocking )

All kidding aside, that's what's gonna 'save' us one day (and not in the way those who are too afraid to accept their own mortality and incredible insignificance) - the fact that we are curious and persistent little buggers.

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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