A Pragmatist's Guide to God
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13-04-2017, 08:24 PM
RE: A Pragmatist's Guide to God
(13-04-2017 08:16 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  There you go. Time to make the donuts.

How about delicious, yummy, Swedish cinnamon rolls?

[Image: dsc04809.jpg?itok=11AP3OKQ]
(I might've put on a kilo or five when I lived in Sweden Blush )

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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13-04-2017, 08:30 PM
RE: A Pragmatist's Guide to God
Back to the path in the woods now. If you were given a chance to live in a vibrant world of meaning, hope, and Beauty, would you choose that belief, the belief out of the woods, or would you rather live in a world based on the probablism of physics, which may seem mechanistic in its stiff materialistic stance?

Sorry, I skimmed rather than read carefully, but I'll answer this question.

I prefer not to live in a world where there are cosmic intelligences and purposes. I don't find that idea vibrant or beautiful or meaningful. I would not feel more valued knowing that I'd been created.

I don't understand how rejecting the god concept/materialism robs the world of meaning, hope, beauty, etc. It doesn't for me.

I'm sure some of my positions are based on what I want to be true, rather than on my best guess at actual truth, but I try not to choose that kind of position deliberately. I think doing so is dishonest and/or immature rather than pragmatic.
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13-04-2017, 08:36 PM (This post was last modified: 13-04-2017 09:05 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: A Pragmatist's Guide to God
(13-04-2017 08:06 PM)Stephen Pedersen Wrote:  So the burning question is, is the pragmatic belief in god worthy of a principle in one's life or does it fall short.

There's a few batshit bonker whackos here who have tailored the fiction for their own purposes. One was in a meth-induced state of frozen frenzy in the middle of the Sonoran Desert when Gwyneth Paltrow appeared and danced on his doodads and now he won't let go. Another non compis mentis noticed that nobody else was doing the job and the natives were getting restless. Like the NYC garbage strike. There's another one who caught God in a radio-free dead zone in the middle of nowhere. That one actually made sense to me. Then there was Metatron. He marked up the place quite a bit. I know another atheist who converted to Chrsitianity to stay sober. Seems to have worked. He's still an atheist. And a Christian.

I can think of many reasons to invent God for a specific purpose. Not the least of which is to immobilize the masses obviously, but also for individual reasons. Sounds like it could be a good idea actually. Whatever gets you through the night.

#sigh
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13-04-2017, 08:37 PM
RE: A Pragmatist's Guide to God
(13-04-2017 08:06 PM)Stephen Pedersen Wrote:  Pragmatism looks at the indeterminable metaphysical problem of the existence of god, and tries to weave its way through empiricism and rationalism to come to decision on whether to believe or not by ways of the belief's consequences rather than its proof. It doesn't try to prove the existence of god, instead it helps you weigh the conseqences if you did believe or not. James believes that the spiritual life is one of the most important aspects to our humanity, and that religion is proof for this need of spirituality. So the burning question is, is the pragmatic belief in god worthy of a principle in one's life or does it fall short.
Three answers:

1) The utility of the concept has nothing at all to say about whether God actually exists or not.

2) It's like you're saying that trilobites had to exist for a couple hundred million years or else there could be no modern world. It doesn't necessarily follow.

3) From one person who spent over two decades working on his "spiritual life" -- I wish I had all that time back for something more useful.
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13-04-2017, 08:46 PM
RE: A Pragmatist's Guide to God
Pragmatic

"dealing with things sensibly and realistically in a way that is based on practical rather than theoretical considerations." (Source: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pragmatic)

Stands to reason that a pragmatist would say "that shit is of no practical value to me, I'm gonna worry about how to make money, feed my family, and do the things I need to do"
So where did all this other shit come from?

A pragmatic person would have no need or reason to believe in any god.

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
Big Grin
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13-04-2017, 08:54 PM (This post was last modified: 13-04-2017 08:59 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: A Pragmatist's Guide to God
(13-04-2017 08:07 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(13-04-2017 07:59 PM)Astreja Wrote:  My version of pragmatism:

Yep, no reason to waste much time on this blather.

This is a very good concise description of James philosophy if you're interested in it. But consider my bias that I agree with him. Pedersen? Sounds Laplander.

#sigh
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13-04-2017, 09:05 PM
RE: A Pragmatist's Guide to God
This is like are you better off believing in God?

Maybe.

But there isn't one. So I can't. So it doesn't matter.
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13-04-2017, 09:08 PM (This post was last modified: 14-04-2017 09:29 AM by GirlyMan.)
RE: A Pragmatist's Guide to God
(13-04-2017 09:05 PM)ImFred Wrote:  This is like are you better off believing in God?

Maybe.

But there isn't one. So I can't. So it doesn't matter.

I'll grant that it is a bit tricky.

#sigh
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13-04-2017, 09:09 PM
RE: A Pragmatist's Guide to God
(13-04-2017 08:06 PM)Stephen Pedersen Wrote:  
(13-04-2017 07:41 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  tl;dr

Can you summarize for people like me with short attention spans?

Yes. Smile

So the burning question is, is the pragmatic belief in god worthy of a principle in one's life or does it fall short.

I hope this helps.

Hardly a burning question seeing as “pragmatic belief” appears to be an oxymoron don’t you think?

Even if you remove the pragmatic qualifier how the hell does a belief in a god reach “worthy” status? Either the god exists or it does not. You might as well ask me if the belief in sentient extra-terrestrials is worthy of a principle in my life. Perhaps they exist and perhaps they don’t but as long as I have zero interaction with them what possible benefit do I have for making them a “principle” in my life?

This burning question isn’t even a spark my friend.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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13-04-2017, 09:12 PM
RE: A Pragmatist's Guide to God
(13-04-2017 08:10 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(13-04-2017 08:06 PM)Stephen Pedersen Wrote:  Pragmatism looks at the indeterminable metaphysical problem of the existence of god, and tries to weave its way through empiricism and rationalism to come to decision on whether to believe or not by ways of the belief's consequences rather than its proof. It doesn't try to prove the existence of god, instead it helps you weigh the conseqences if you did believe or not. James believes that the spiritual life is one of the most important aspects to our humanity, and that religion is proof for this need of spirituality. So the burning question is, is the pragmatic belief in god worthy of a principle in one's life or does it fall short.

I hope this helps.

Not as much as Gwynnies.

You know, the more I see this response, the more I am convinced that this is the appropriate response. While nobody here is gonna get a pic, the resemblance between the Gwinnie and my wife is uncanny.
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