A Pragmatist's Guide to God
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14-04-2017, 04:07 PM
RE: A Pragmatist's Guide to God
There are lots of reasons given to believe in God, but they should all be considered blasphemous because having a reason to accept the idea of God is the opposite of faith, and I would argue, supports only the idea of a being that is created by humans in the image of God. But that's really just a pet peeve of mine in these discussions, because I have little interest in talking about faith, anyway.

I hold some of these pragmatist views, cobbled together out of a lot of stuff, but I can't imagine actually trying to use them to prove the existence of God. For me, the whole point of a pragmatic approach is to determine that, if there could be a reason for religion, it is to raise questions rather than answers, and it has more in common with music for discovering truth than philosophy or anything resembling science. For instance, whether Jesus existed in any form or not, his story as written in the bible is presented overtly as a parable of a messianic figure to the audience at the time, adjusted so that events coincide in a symbolically meaningful way with the ancient Jewish liturgical calendar. (With a bunch of letters tacked on at the end that the writers of the time could not have possibly conceived would have been taken later as the Werd of Gawd or even divinely inspired.) It's an inspiring tale about the coming of a good life--"Heaven"--to your current existence--"Earth"--by doing your damnedest (ha ha) to live as though it has, in a spirit and mindset of abundance and, shall we say, fellowship in the face of "Caesar's" message that you should live in fear of scarcity and isolation. And keep doing that and shouting about it even when they kill you because the message is worth it. So the question of whether God or Jesus "really" existed in any form, and would there really have been camels next to the manger, and was he actually 2 years old when the Wise Men arrived, and did a bush really catch fire, and... is just about as far from the point as possible. It's also the kind of crap churches have always emphasized because it's easier and it keeps people distracted from the actual message that power of any nature is what evil is, including their own.

And no, I'd "rather" live in a world based on what the OP calls the "probablism [sic] of physics, which may seem mechanistic in its stiff materialistic stance". Whatever meaning I can strain out of that word stew, yes, given the choice, I'd much rather live in a world written in the language of mathematics than the apartment building from that Monty Python sketch where the magician and his assistant erect affordable luxury housing in seconds but all the residents have to believe or else the building falls down. Just because I sometimes wish I could set fire to things with my mind doesn't mean I'd actually choose Hogwarts over Eton. Or, like, literally anywhere else. Jesus, that's terrifying.
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14-04-2017, 04:37 PM
RE: A Pragmatist's Guide to God
Pragmatic - matter of fact, reasonable, common sense

Is it reasonable to believe something when no evidence is presented ?
Answer - No

Facts - As in, do you have any that support the existence of a god ?
Answer - No

What does common sense tell me ?
Answer - It tells me that religion is a con game that preys upon people's fear of death and a hope that this hard life will have some kind of reward when it's all over.

I would argue that a belief in things that are not supported by evidence is the very definition of gullibility and faith.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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14-04-2017, 04:38 PM
RE: A Pragmatist's Guide to God
(14-04-2017 04:07 PM)kmc Wrote:  There are lots of reasons given to believe in God, but they should all be considered blasphemous because having a reason to accept the idea of God is the opposite of faith, and I would argue, supports only the idea of a being that is created by humans in the image of God.

It is blaphemous. Like the ultimate in blasphemy. That's why I like it. Smile

(14-04-2017 04:37 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  What does common sense tell me ?
Answer - It tells me that religion is a con game that preys upon people's fear of death and a hope that this hard life will have some kind of reward when it's all over.

If you're the one running the con that counts as a good reason.

#sigh
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14-04-2017, 04:48 PM
RE: A Pragmatist's Guide to God
(14-04-2017 04:38 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(14-04-2017 04:07 PM)kmc Wrote:  There are lots of reasons given to believe in God, but they should all be considered blasphemous because having a reason to accept the idea of God is the opposite of faith, and I would argue, supports only the idea of a being that is created by humans in the image of God.

It is blaphemous. Like the ultimate in blasphemy. That's why I like it. Smile

(14-04-2017 04:37 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  What does common sense tell me ?
Answer - It tells me that religion is a con game that preys upon people's fear of death and a hope that this hard life will have some kind of reward when it's all over.

If you're the one running the con that counts as a good reason.

A reason, not IMO a good reason. Why not use the same effort and imagination in something that's not a con?
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14-04-2017, 04:51 PM (This post was last modified: 14-04-2017 05:01 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: A Pragmatist's Guide to God
(14-04-2017 04:48 PM)julep Wrote:  
(14-04-2017 04:38 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  It is blaphemous. Like the ultimate in blasphemy. That's why I like it. Smile


If you're the one running the con that counts as a good reason.

A reason, not IMO a good reason. Why not use the same effort and imagination in something that's not a con?

n.b. Everything, and I mean everything, I post here is tongue-in-cheek for my own selfish shits and giggles. Except for the computer stuff. ... And Gwynnies. ... And gardening. ... And food. ... And this lamp.

#sigh
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14-04-2017, 05:29 PM
RE: A Pragmatist's Guide to God
(14-04-2017 04:51 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(14-04-2017 04:48 PM)julep Wrote:  A reason, not IMO a good reason. Why not use the same effort and imagination in something that's not a con?

n.b. Everything, and I mean everything, I post here is tongue-in-cheek for my own selfish shits and giggles. Except for the computer stuff. ... And Gwynnies. ... And gardening. ... And food. ... And this lamp.

I understand. Taking tongue out of my own cheek: Tongue
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14-04-2017, 05:31 PM
RE: A Pragmatist's Guide to God
(14-04-2017 05:29 PM)julep Wrote:  
(14-04-2017 04:51 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  n.b. Everything, and I mean everything, I post here is tongue-in-cheek for my own selfish shits and giggles. Except for the computer stuff. ... And Gwynnies. ... And gardening. ... And food. ... And this lamp.

I understand. Taking tongue out of my own cheek: Tongue

Bastard. Angry

#sigh
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14-04-2017, 06:24 PM
RE: A Pragmatist's Guide to God
(14-04-2017 02:13 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  "All disputes are idle"?! This asshole clearly has never logged in.

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Hello good sir,

What he means when he says all disputes are idle is that they've taken reason as far as it can go. Logic and common sense only gets us so far and at some point we have to answer the question if god exists or not or whether there is freewill or whether there is consciousness. We can't prove any of these things without a doubt so it may be fruitful to look at the consequences of there belief and live accordingly.
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14-04-2017, 06:25 PM
RE: A Pragmatist's Guide to God
(14-04-2017 07:40 AM)morondog Wrote:  May I suggest that OP pragmatically get bent?

Classy. Someone give this guy a hug, he wasn't held as a child.
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14-04-2017, 06:27 PM
RE: A Pragmatist's Guide to God
(13-04-2017 08:06 PM)Stephen Pedersen Wrote:  
(13-04-2017 07:41 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  tl;dr

Can you summarize for people like me with short attention spans?

Yes. Smile

Pragmatism looks at the indeterminable metaphysical problem of the existence of god, and tries to weave its way through empiricism and rationalism to come to decision on whether to believe or not by ways of the belief's consequences rather than its proof. It doesn't try to prove the existence of god, instead it helps you weigh the conseqences if you did believe or not. James believes that the spiritual life is one of the most important aspects to our humanity, and that religion is proof for this need of spirituality. So the burning question is, is the pragmatic belief in god worthy of a principle in one's life or does it fall short.

I hope this helps.

And it does a piss-poor job of it.
As a pragmatist, I see that there is no real benefit to believing in gods, and an incalculable benefit to not wasting the finite amount of existence I have with meaningless rituals and clouded thinking.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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