A Prayer for Boston and for Us All
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17-04-2013, 12:25 AM
 
RE: A Prayer for Boston and for Us All
(17-04-2013 12:16 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I believe God created humans with free will and thus has no specific plans for any individual.

I think we have some free will. We have the choice to accept or reject Christ, for instance, but God can start or stop anything. Otherwise, He ain't "God."
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17-04-2013, 12:33 AM
RE: A Prayer for Boston and for Us All
(17-04-2013 12:25 AM)Egor Wrote:  
(17-04-2013 12:16 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I believe God created humans with free will and thus has no specific plans for any individual.

I think we have some free will. We have the choice to accept or reject Christ, for instance, but God can start or stop anything. Otherwise, He ain't "God."

Your prayer makes it sound like that was God's will someone build a bomb and use it to slaughter people.
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17-04-2013, 12:34 AM
RE: A Prayer for Boston and for Us All
(17-04-2013 12:22 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(17-04-2013 12:17 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  But how do you know that?
What if god does have a plan for everyone? Are you so arrogant that you are 100% sure you know what God's intentions are? Thee God.

I'm not 100% sure. I am sure enough that I found Egor's prayer to be distasteful.

So your not 100% sure? But just a second ago you sounded adamant that your way was right and Egor was full of shit.

Could it be possible that you want to believe humans have free will. Because humans are imperfect and the idea that God would do something that you know is horrible, is unbearable?

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17-04-2013, 12:45 AM
RE: A Prayer for Boston and for Us All
(17-04-2013 12:34 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(17-04-2013 12:22 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I'm not 100% sure. I am sure enough that I found Egor's prayer to be distasteful.

So your not 100% sure? But just a second ago you sounded adamant that your way was right and Egor was full of shit.

Could it be possible that you want to believe humans have free will. Because humans are imperfect and the idea that God would do something that you know is horrible, is unbearable?

a second ago I said I was a little offended by Egor's prayer. I never said he was full of shit or anything close to that effect. You are manufacturing a history that did not occur. Why is that?
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17-04-2013, 01:03 AM
RE: A Prayer for Boston and for Us All
(17-04-2013 12:45 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(17-04-2013 12:34 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  So your not 100% sure? But just a second ago you sounded adamant that your way was right and Egor was full of shit.

Could it be possible that you want to believe humans have free will. Because humans are imperfect and the idea that God would do something that you know is horrible, is unbearable?

a second ago I said I was a little offended by Egor's prayer. I never said he was full of shit or anything close to that effect. You are manufacturing a history that did not occur. Why is that?

"Manufacturing a history that did not occur"
Say's the theist... hypocrite much? Dodgy

Of course you didn't say it exactly, but you gave you said you were a little offended because your belief is opposite to his (him believing god has a plan, you believing we have free will), which is the same as saying his belief is a load of shit.

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17-04-2013, 01:36 AM (This post was last modified: 17-04-2013 01:52 AM by Heywood Jahblome.)
RE: A Prayer for Boston and for Us All
(17-04-2013 01:03 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(17-04-2013 12:45 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  a second ago I said I was a little offended by Egor's prayer. I never said he was full of shit or anything close to that effect. You are manufacturing a history that did not occur. Why is that?

"Manufacturing a history that did not occur"
Say's the theist... hypocrite much? Dodgy

Of course you didn't say it exactly, but you gave you said you were a little offended because your belief is opposite to his (him believing god has a plan, you believing we have free will), which is the same as saying his belief is a load of shit.

Suppose reality is exactly as your manufactured history of it....that I said Egor was full of shit. A statement about Egor's claim is not a statement about my own claim. Even if I am 100% sure Egor is wrong, that does not imply that I am 100% sure that I am right. My confidence in Egor's statements says nothing about my confidence of my own statement.
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17-04-2013, 03:54 AM
RE: A Prayer for Boston and for Us All
(17-04-2013 12:25 AM)Egor Wrote:  
(17-04-2013 12:16 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I believe God created humans with free will and thus has no specific plans for any individual.

I think we have some free will. We have the choice to accept or reject Christ, for instance, but God can start or stop anything. Otherwise, He ain't "God."

No one can "accept or reject Christ" or the gods. You never read the Boble apparently.

"No one shall come to me unless the Father draw him".
St. Paul said faith was a gift if the Spirit.
I really wish these theists had read their own damn books.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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17-04-2013, 04:07 AM
RE: A Prayer for Boston and for Us All
(17-04-2013 01:36 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(17-04-2013 01:03 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  "Manufacturing a history that did not occur"
Say's the theist... hypocrite much? Dodgy

Of course you didn't say it exactly, but you gave you said you were a little offended because your belief is opposite to his (him believing god has a plan, you believing we have free will), which is the same as saying his belief is a load of shit.

Suppose reality is exactly as your manufactured history of it....that I said Egor was full of shit. A statement about Egor's claim is not a statement about my own claim. Even if I am 100% sure Egor is wrong, that does not imply that I am 100% sure that I am right. My confidence in Egor's statements says nothing about my confidence of my own statement.

You are putting to much weight behind "load of shit", what I call load of shit, you'd call 'wrong'. I'm a crude person, so sue me.

I never said it did, you were the one that said you're not 100% sure of your own beliefs.
I was simply asking, how do you know you are right and egor is wrong or you're wrong and Egor is right.
You are confident enough to believe you're right and he's wrong enough that you take offense to his prayer. Which brings me back to my original point, are you so arrogant that you know what god's intentions are?

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17-04-2013, 04:49 AM
RE: A Prayer for Boston and for Us All
(16-04-2013 10:55 PM)Egor Wrote:  I knew a school principal once when I worked in the education office at Peterson AFB in Colorado. He was a Reservist. He told me about how he went to a Central American country on a mission (I don't remember if it was a Church or the Peace Corps.). Anyway, they built a school house for this town, this village, and they were very proud of themselves for it. He quit doing that sort of work when he went back a year later only to find that the police used it to torture suspects in.

If you have money to give, by all means give it. But don't forget to pray.

So the Red Cross is going to use the money to torture Bostonians?. Those are two completely different situations.

I bet the people being tortured did a lot of praying. Didn't do much for them did it. Funny how prayer doesn't actually help those who need it most.

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17-04-2013, 05:42 AM
RE: A Prayer for Boston and for Us All
(17-04-2013 12:25 AM)Egor Wrote:  I think we have some free will. We have the choice to accept or reject Christ, for instance, but God can start or stop anything. Otherwise, He ain't "God."

And how do you make that decision to accept or reject Christ or to not believe in him at all?
I think you make it based on your knowledge about the world, your experience and reason and logic. You don't just decide what you believe. You evaluate the available information and come to a conclusion. I can't just believe whatever I want. Believe me, I tried Wink
You can try to bend, deny or ignore information but I don't think you can fight off the doubt that comes along with doing that forever? Or can you?
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