A Question for S.T.Ranger
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 4 Votes - 2 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
11-10-2011, 03:16 PM
A Question for S.T.Ranger
Greetings Mr. S.T.

I wanted to inject a few thoughts before I ask a fairly simple question of you. It's not earth shaking, it's more of a way of simplifying and defining historically complicated issues. Both sides of the playing field are in some kind of a game of back and forth where the boundaries are never reached and the ball never touches the floor. Belief and non-belief, scripture and science, faith and reason, the ideas just go back and forth, over and over. All the arguments have been had. All the data has been produced and all the holy scripture has been expounded. For most it becomes an exercise of who can push the buttons or who can spew the farthest. For others, it's purely us vs. them. For others it's an exercise in debate, others, a social scratching pole. Some come to learn, others to tell. In the end it's all words. The communication stops because we loose track of the point. I assert we loose track of the point, because we loose track of the human behind the pseudonym. Hiding behind that user name makes it so easy to let the words become the persona and in fact we loose the reality of being.

Whatever we say on this forum is only what we allow ourselves to reveal. It can be true, it can be untrue. For all you know I could be Pat Robertson in disguise; you could be Start Raving in drag. We just can't know. The same works for humans even off the net. We can only know what we are offered or what we see for ourselves but even then...? The only person we have the possibility to know is ourself and many times people don't even know that. What is the end result of all the blabber? How is that verbiage going to effect us in relatime? Why are we doing this? We are doing this to make the statement that "we think". The only problem is we are only the sum of our digital message, not the message of our person.

For myself, the only way I can possibly take you and your ideas seriously, or anyone's for that matter, is to know that you are more than the sum of your typing. Otherwise I don't give a damn. I receive the digital code and I process what I will as it pertains to my experience, that's it. What you and other believers propose to me through this medium is something that is only from your personal human experience. As a matter of fact that is true even if we were to meet in a church but is's far more pronounced in this medium and more easily disguised.

I have been very brash with you on this forum. I have been angry with your typing; your portrayal of your ideas fixed in a christianesque fashion that I have heard and actually participated in for years is so surreal it bothers me deeply. It's as if it's coming from a tape recorder. I have also been honest as far as I can tell. My words can distort in a way that is more harsh in one instance than another but the ideas are mine. As a person, I have no reason not to be harsh when it is important to me. But there is another level to my madness.

I am a minimalist; I appreciate the least common denominator. In being harsh and out of turn, maybe goading you, prodding, I was able to see you for the first time. I think you reached your limit in a fashion that normal discussion could never reveal. I think I heard the man behind the mask. I'm curious if you can continue to show yourself. How far will you go to defend your ideas? How much is you and how much is that phantom you tell us about? How much is what you think and how much is what your holy book tells you? Where those divide or melt together will help this person to understand what could be.

Feel free to comment on this preamble but I will warn you, if your comments are line by line quotes, not concise, not believable, I won't read any further. Sorry, I need some completeness in the order. I'll post a question to you here after that. There are conditions. It's really no biggie. I am curious if you can answer it as the person.

defacto7


* - relatime, the computer term

Who can turn skies back and begin again?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like defacto7's post
11-10-2011, 04:34 PM
RE: A Question for S.T.Ranger
(11-10-2011 03:16 PM)defacto7 Wrote:  Greetings Mr. S.T.

I wanted to inject a few thoughts before I ask a fairly simple question of you. It's not earth shaking, it's more of a way of simplifying and defining historically complicated issues. Both sides of the playing field are in some kind of a game of back and forth where the boundaries are never reached and the ball never touches the floor. Belief and non-belief, scripture and science, faith and reason, the ideas just go back and forth, over and over. All the arguments have been had. All the data has been produced and all the holy scripture has been expounded. For most it becomes an exercise of who can push the buttons or who can spew the farthest. For others, it's purely us vs. them. For others it's an exercise in debate, others, a social scratching pole. Some come to learn, others to tell. In the end it's all words. The communication stops because we loose track of the point. I assert we loose track of the point, because we loose track of the human behind the pseudonym. Hiding behind that user name makes it so easy to let the words become the persona and in fact we loose the reality of being.

Whatever we say on this forum is only what we allow ourselves to reveal. It can be true, it can be untrue. For all you know I could be Pat Robertson in disguise; you could be Start Raving in drag. We just can't know. The same works for humans even off the net. We can only know what we are offered or what we see for ourselves but even then...? The only person we have the possibility to know is ourself and many times people don't even know that. What is the end result of all the blabber? How is that verbiage going to effect us in relatime? Why are we doing this? We are doing this to make the statement that "we think". The only problem is we are only the sum of our digital message, not the message of our person.

For myself, the only way I can possibly take you and your ideas seriously, or anyone's for that matter, is to know that you are more than the sum of your typing. Otherwise I don't give a damn. I receive the digital code and I process what I will as it pertains to my experience, that's it. What you and other believers propose to me through this medium is something that is only from your personal human experience. As a matter of fact that is true even if we were to meet in a church but is's far more pronounced in this medium and more easily disguised.

I have been very brash with you on this forum. I have been angry with your typing; your portrayal of your ideas fixed in a christianesque fashion that I have heard and actually participated in for years is so surreal it bothers me deeply. It's as if it's coming from a tape recorder. I have also been honest as far as I can tell. My words can distort in a way that is more harsh in one instance than another but the ideas are mine. As a person, I have no reason not to be harsh when it is important to me. But there is another level to my madness.

I am a minimalist; I appreciate the least common denominator. In being harsh and out of turn, maybe goading you, prodding, I was able to see you for the first time. I think you reached your limit in a fashion that normal discussion could never reveal. I think I heard the man behind the mask. I'm curious if you can continue to show yourself. How far will you go to defend your ideas? How much is you and how much is that phantom you tell us about? How much is what you think and how much is what your holy book tells you? Where those divide or melt together will help this person to understand what could be.

Feel free to comment on this preamble but I will warn you, if your comments are line by line quotes, not concise, not believable, I won't read any further. Sorry, I need some completeness in the order. I'll post a question to you here after that. There are conditions. It's really no biggie. I am curious if you can answer it as the person.

defacto7


* - relatime, the computer term

Okay, so let me see if I have this right: You want to ask a question, but you set the terms such as " I need some completeness in the order" and at the same time you say "if your comments are line by line quotes, not concise, not believable, I won't read any further."

Kind of makes it tough for me, doesn't it? How can there be "completeness and order" without...completeness and order?

Nevertheless, as you wish. All I ask is the constant charges of "not answering" stop. This is why they are done "line by line." If the conversations are read, it will be seen that no question has been unanswered.

Now, on to this post itself: it seems that you feel you have seen the "real me" by perhaps goading me. I can assure you that the "real me" has been talking to those here since I have arrived. And in case you are wondering how the poster here extends into the real world, relax...I irritate people and am a far worse windbag in person.

I am glad to have you admit this, actually, it is a ploy that is not unique to atheists, but is used by everyone. While I am used to it, it is sad that it is employed. My hopes in coming here was that there was someone that actually had a little bit of knowledge of scripture outside of the refutations given by this website. That was one of the reasons I decided to come here. But rather than having civil conversation with someone about doctrine that is claimed to be "known better than Christians," I find a very similar group to what I am already use to.

Very disappointing, really.

So, go ahead with your question, Defacto.

S.T.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-10-2011, 04:49 PM
RE: A Question for S.T.Ranger
Who the fuck is S.T.Ranger? Have we ever spoken mr Ranger? I feel like I've missed out on something interesting.

Anyhow back to the discussion.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like lucradis's post
11-10-2011, 05:05 PM
RE: A Question for S.T.Ranger
(11-10-2011 04:49 PM)lucradis Wrote:  Who the fuck is S.T.Ranger? Have we ever spoken mr Ranger? I feel like I've missed out on something interesting.

Anyhow back to the discussion.

Not yet.

And your in luck...the conversation is about to begin, so feel free to get in on the ground floor. Be back tomorrow.

S.T.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-10-2011, 05:23 PM
RE: A Question for S.T.Ranger
(11-10-2011 04:34 PM)S.T. Ranger Wrote:  Very disappointing, really.

So, go ahead with your question, Defacto.

S.T. if your comments are line by line quotes, not concise, not believable, I won't read any further. Sorry, I need some completeness in the order.
Quote:
defacto7 Wrote:
if your comments are line by line quotes, not concise, not believable, I won't read any further. Sorry, I need some completeness in the order.

You are right. It was unfair to make a blanket statement like refusing to read. As far as completeness and order, I see the quote system disjointed when it's line by line. That is only my opinion. Do as you please. It's not a debate. If answering a simple question is too difficult under a certain parameter, then don't answer it. Or do as you please. I will say though, if all this is to you is an exercise in biblical knowledge, I guess I am barking up the wrong tree. My apologies.

Who can turn skies back and begin again?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-10-2011, 05:50 PM
RE: A Question for S.T.Ranger
(11-10-2011 05:23 PM)defacto7 Wrote:  
(11-10-2011 04:34 PM)S.T. Ranger Wrote:  Very disappointing, really.

So, go ahead with your question, Defacto.

S.T. if your comments are line by line quotes, not concise, not believable, I won't read any further. Sorry, I need some completeness in the order.
Quote:
defacto7 Wrote:
if your comments are line by line quotes, not concise, not believable, I won't read any further. Sorry, I need some completeness in the order.

You are right. It was unfair to make a blanket statement like refusing to read. As far as completeness and order, I see the quote system disjointed when it's line by line. That is only my opinion. Do as you please. It's not a debate. If answering a simple question is too difficult under a certain parameter, then don't answer it. Or do as you please. I will say though, if all this is to you is an exercise in biblical knowledge, I guess I am barking up the wrong tree. My apologies.

If it is a simple question, as you have implied in both posts so far, is whether I break it up even an issue?

I am making dinner right now, and will check in again in a bit to see your question. I was tempted to start the post with "I sit here with tears in my eyes (I am making chili, by the way, and the onions are some good ones)..." but I resisted, as it seems that you are in a serious mood, and I can appreciate that (but I hate to let good humor go to waste).

Ask away, Defacto.

S.T.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-10-2011, 06:29 PM
RE: A Question for S.T.Ranger
(11-10-2011 05:50 PM)S.T. Ranger Wrote:  If it is a simple question, as you have implied in both posts so far, is whether I break it up even an issue?

I am making dinner right now, and will check in again in a bit to see your question. I was tempted to start the post with "I sit here with tears in my eyes (I am making chili, by the way, and the onions are some good ones)..." but I resisted, as it seems that you are in a serious mood, and I can appreciate that (but I hate to let good humor go to waste).

Ask away, Defacto.

S.T.

Ha... I guess I am in a serious mood. I have to take one of my kids to ballet so I will have to take a little hiatus myself. Will get to it. Don't worry, the earth will not shift.

Who can turn skies back and begin again?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-10-2011, 10:04 PM
RE: A Question for S.T.Ranger
I'm going to throw my 2c worth in here....sorry if I appear to be "butting in"....but this is a public forum and I've been following it. I sense defacto's frustration and curiosity as he or she tries to connect with ST, but defacto, in my opinion your wonderfully real correspondence with him is way over his head.

I've given up a long time ago trying to get him engaged in any meaningful conversation. He is polite, and prolific, but he never really says anything inspiring or novel. He continually hints that he has a superior understanding of scripture to everyone else, including other Christians, yet when he does get around to talking about his favorite topic he has nothing new or inspiring to say. By his own admission he is a simple man. By his own admission he has absolutely no interest in discussing history or what any of the great philosophers, past or present, have to say. His whole world revolves around his interpretation of his silly book...and that's fine....for him. Yet he is wasting everyone else's time. You will be lucky to get a direct answer about anything from him. You will read pages and pages and get almost jack shit out of it.

As I've said before, he just doesn't know how much he doesn't know.

The early church fathers often used verbal bombardment of the masses as a tool to suppress questioning minds. SJ has the same mindset...he will read what you've written only on a superficial level, not get it, reinterpret it to suit and justify himself and then reply with an obtuse and lengthy answer. He probably doesn't even know he's doing this. He will not pay you the respect of addressing your arguments, will hint that he knows better, and then pretend to be the mr nice guy.

I just don't think he's bright enough to really address issues honestly, and not bright enough to get it when told he's behaving like a jerk.

By all means keep talking to him....I like reading what you post....but maybe you could save yourself the angst?
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 6 users Like Mark Fulton's post
12-10-2011, 12:07 AM
RE: A Question for S.T.Ranger
A fair and heartfelt greeting to you S.T.

I would like to ask you a single question. It is not a difficult one or a loaded one. I will not refute it as a persons opinion is their opinion. If it does not seem to me like an opinion I may question it. I am not addressing this to S.T Ranger, I am addressing the man or woman who uses this pseudonym. I have only one purpose: To know the mind of the person with whom I am speaking and to define your belief not your knowledge.

I want to put forth 4 qualifications. I hope you can humor me with conditions but maybe you can think in terms of offering benevolence for my meager inquiry in this case.

The conditions:

Do not use a scripture verse or biblical reference of any kind or that anyone else offers that is based on biblical or scriptural authority, and no references within a work, book or a scripture.

Speak for yourself, not me or anyone else.

No quotes other than your own, is the third.

The last thing I ask is that you not get picky about specific wording of the question or qualification to discard the question. It just is what it is. You decide what it means to you. There are no tricks here.

My assumptions:

I assume you believe in God. I assume you believe in the Christian faith. If that is incorrect, please discredit the assumptions and the question will become invalid.

The question:

Why do you believe in God, and the Christian faith?

I will leave it to you.

With all sincerity, Defacto7

{I also want to ask forum members to show ST respect with regard to his answer. It's a personal question. Thanks}

Who can turn skies back and begin again?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes defacto7's post
12-10-2011, 11:14 PM
RE: A Question for S.T.Ranger
bump bump

Who can turn skies back and begin again?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes defacto7's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: