A Question for S.T.Ranger
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 4 Votes - 2 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
13-06-2012, 05:28 PM
RE: A Question for S.T.Ranger
(13-06-2012 04:39 PM)S.T. Ranger Wrote:  1-Most who hate Christians know very little about the basis of the Christian faith, which is of course the Bible. What little they do know does not correspond to the actual writings of scripture, and they are forced to discredit textual evidence which is actually studied and accepted by scholars that speciallize in the field.

2-Atheism is...a religious pursuit. It qualifies in definition as well as practice. The irony here is...a professed hatred for those that are religious by those that exhibit a religiosity that far exceeds the nominal Christian in zeal is unknown to them, making them byfar...their own worst enemy...bla bla bla.

3-For the religious atheist, there is exhibited a zeal born by hatred that leads them to, at times, the same mentality that we see in many leaders of cults. Development of a messiah complex is a real danger to the over-zealous, which may lead to production of literature meant to "save" individuals from whatever the focus of this individual's hatred is bent upon.

All that has been offered is opinions about scripture, and primarily opinions that certainly show an unfamiliarity with scripture.


Bullshit. Thanks for the sermon. All you have offered is Babble quotes.

You want to drag people into the rabbit hole of dueling Babble quotes, because that is all you know. You know no History, and context, so you are reduced to Babble quoting. Religious poeple are always generalizing about how much atheists hate religion. Pity is not hate. You can't even define "religion", much less explain how an absence of belief, is a belief in absence. You don't even know the first thing about actual Biblical scholarship, as has been proven here, in the past weeks. You don't know if any of us, other than Mark, actually hate religion. The fact is, last weekend, attending the conference, I was invited by my good friend, an Abbott, to stay with them in their monastery. We has great talks. Your generalizations are as weak as your scholarship, sir.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Bucky Ball's post
13-06-2012, 07:41 PM
RE: A Question for S.T.Ranger
(13-06-2012 05:28 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(13-06-2012 04:39 PM)S.T. Ranger Wrote:  1-Most who hate Christians know very little about the basis of the Christian faith, which is of course the Bible. What little they do know does not correspond to the actual writings of scripture, and they are forced to discredit textual evidence which is actually studied and accepted by scholars that speciallize in the field.

2-Atheism is...a religious pursuit. It qualifies in definition as well as practice. The irony here is...a professed hatred for those that are religious by those that exhibit a religiosity that far exceeds the nominal Christian in zeal is unknown to them, making them byfar...their own worst enemy...bla bla bla.

3-For the religious atheist, there is exhibited a zeal born by hatred that leads them to, at times, the same mentality that we see in many leaders of cults. Development of a messiah complex is a real danger to the over-zealous, which may lead to production of literature meant to "save" individuals from whatever the focus of this individual's hatred is bent upon.

All that has been offered is opinions about scripture, and primarily opinions that certainly show an unfamiliarity with scripture.


Bullshit. Thanks for the sermon. All you have offered is Babble quotes.

In case you didn't notice, there were no quotes from scripture in there.

Details...get you every time.

(13-06-2012 05:28 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  You want to drag people into the rabbit hole of dueling Babble quotes, because that is all you know.

No, actually I don't. What I want to do is drag into the forefront some of the weaknesses of your belief system. You cannot say, "I don't believe, and that is not a belief."

Then you don't believe that you don't believe? Think about it.


(13-06-2012 05:28 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  You know no History, and context, so you are reduced to Babble quoting.

Another statement based upon guesswork. You have no idea as to what history I am familiar with or not.

History is a part of proper interpretation. For instance, so far you have expressed your belief that the concept of hades originated with greek mythology, Christianity absorbing the mythology into it's doctrine. Based upon scientific fact that the Hebrew scriptures speak of a similar concept, howbeit in far less detail as provided by Christ and the Apostles, proves without controversy that you...are in error.

Not once that I can recall concerning this particular topic have I produced the first verse, though I have offered to discuss it with you. Showing once again, you...in error.

So we ask the question: why exactly are you saying these things? My guess? Because this sort of approach has been successful in conversations you have had before, but...it just isn't going to fly with me...lol.

Think you are critical? So am I.

Think you are skeptical? So am I.

Think you can be derisive? Well, so can I, but...I try not to go that route.

(13-06-2012 05:28 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Religious poeple are always generalizing about how much atheists hate religion.

Well, you should be happy, then. You did read the post, right?

Nothing general about it, it was a direct statement to the religiosity of some atheists. Not all. But I think I commented on that as well.

Also, without doubt there was nothing general about atheists, some of them...being exactly what they hate. Perhaps that is why such hostility is usually present with these individuals.

(13-06-2012 05:28 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Pity is not hate.

Now this I can agree with.


(13-06-2012 05:28 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  You can't even define "religion",

I have not only given my particular view concerning definition of religion, but have posted general definitions from dictionaries. Try this one:

Religion is a collection of cultural systems, belief systems, and worldviews that relate humanity to spirituality and, sometimes, to moral values.[1] Many religions have narratives, symbols, traditions and sacred histories that are intended to give meaning to life or to explain the origin of life or the universe. They tend to derive morality, ethics, religious laws or a preferred lifestyle from their ideas about the cosmos and human nature.

(taken from here)

Now if you are honest, you will be able to correlate much of this to atheism.

Which of these characteristics would you deny you yourself do not have a position on.


(13-06-2012 05:28 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  much less explain how an absence of belief, is a belief in absence.

No need to explain, I can simply ask: are you telling me that you do not disbelieve there is a God? You believe firmly there is no God, and for there to be an absence of belief in truth, you must have never heard of God, and never had the concept enter your mind.

(13-06-2012 05:28 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  You don't even know the first thing about actual Biblical scholarship,

While I do not claim to be a scholar, I will put that theory to the test any day, my friend. You will not take the challenge, though, because it would involve actually looking at the scripture. So if you don't mind, drop the strawmen, put up...or shut up (and this of course is said in the nicest possible way Smile )

You really want to know what I know concerning exegesis, then lets get to it.

If you want a link or links to scholars that not only active in daily Biblical pursuits, I can get those for you as well. Just understand that it does not take a scholar to know God's word. If that were the case, the Lord Jesus Christ picked the wrong fellows, who, by the way, turned the world upside down. Pretty good for a bunch of hicks, huh?

(13-06-2012 05:28 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  as has been proven here, in the past weeks.

You keep saying this as though repetition makes something true. I have asked before...what has been proved?

(13-06-2012 05:28 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  You don't know if any of us, other than Mark, actually hate religion.

Can you say that with a straight face? I mean really? Shall I quote you fellows and your eloquent responses?

lol

What, is it just those that don't know their place you hate? I don't think you realize how your hearts have been exposed in your speech.

(13-06-2012 05:28 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The fact is, last weekend, attending the conference, I was invited by my good friend, an Abbott, to stay with them in their monastery.

And did you speak to him as you speak to me? Was he patient with the vulgar expression of contempt you show for Jesus Christ?

(13-06-2012 05:28 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  We has great talks.

And I is happy for you.

Sorry...just kidding, lol. Couldn't help it.

But seriously, this is something I try to maintain when speaking to people on forums: I try not to say something that I would not dare say to someone to their face. This helps me quite a bit. Give it some thought, not because I mention it, but for the merit of the practice itself. Because if you speak one way to a certain group, and another with a differnet one, what does that make you?

(13-06-2012 05:28 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Your generalizations are as weak as your scholarship, sir.

Well, when you want to put that to the test, let me know.

And, I did want to briefly touch on a post I missed earlier:


Quote:Name ONE mainline Christian sect that teaches that the "soul" is different from the "spirit". 3 parts... hahahahaha.


I get the impression that you may feel you have a real "stumper," here. Why I do not know. It is common among many denominations to hold to the trichotomy of man. So I guess you do have me stumped, as I find the question a little on the absurd side.

This too, is a great study. Want to know my view on this? You might be surprised. And you needn't feel the need to believe it to discuss it.

Okay, have to go.

GTY
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-06-2012, 08:13 PM
RE: A Question for S.T.Ranger
So many posts, with so little said, and so many claiming victory about nothing. Sigh.

S.T. Ranger: Is there anything specific you came on to the forum to say, or ask? Perhaps you (and we) could step back and treat each other like adults that actually have reasons for the things we believe or disbelieve. Perhaps you in particular could tell us some of the things you believe, and why you believe them. That is, what do you mean when you say "God". What is the nature of that god? What makes you think this god is real and has the properties you state for it? Do you have a good reason to believe that exists outside of your own mental state, and outside of the internal mental state of particular bible authors that the rest of us may have missed?

What do you believe, and why do you believe it?

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Hafnof's post
13-06-2012, 08:36 PM
RE: A Question for S.T.Ranger
(13-06-2012 08:13 PM)Hafnof Wrote:  So many posts, with so little said, and so many claiming victory about nothing. Sigh.

S.T. Ranger: Is there anything specific you came on to the forum to say, or ask? Perhaps you (and we) could step back and treat each other like adults that actually have reasons for the things we believe or disbelieve. Perhaps you in particular could tell us some of the things you believe, and why you believe them. That is, what do you mean when you say "God". What is the nature of that god? What makes you think this god is real and has the properties you state for it? Do you have a good reason to believe that exists outside of your own mental state, and outside of the internal mental state of particular bible authors that the rest of us may have missed?

What do you believe, and why do you believe it?




EXACTLY! all we get is blah blah blah. I'll probably fall off my chair if he answers the questions. I think the lights are on but nobody's home. The upstairs flat is for rent.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-06-2012, 09:25 PM
RE: A Question for S.T.Ranger
(13-06-2012 07:41 PM)S.T. Ranger Wrote:  You believe firmly there is no God, and for there to be an absence of belief in truth, you must have never heard of God, and never had the concept enter your mind.
Nope. That is self delusion. Show me one shred of evidence. It's all about evidence. And that's it. You have not one shred. You have already proven, by what you said about the First Covenant, that you know nothing about history. Are you on drugs ? (lol lol lol lol lol lol) ? I repeat show us the evidence, the real archaeological evidence, for your First Covenant. The "absurd side" remark is hilarious. Your "drop out" status is showing again.
(13-06-2012 07:41 PM)S.T. Ranger Wrote:  I get the impression that you may feel you have a real "stumper," here. Why I do not know. It is common among many denominations to hold to the trichotomy of man. So I guess you do have me stumped, as I find the question a little on the absurd side.

Name one.
As I said last week, your horse is named Trigger, and there's an angel knocking at your door. It's name is Moroni. There are some gold tablets buried in your back yard.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Bucky Ball's post
13-06-2012, 09:30 PM (This post was last modified: 14-06-2012 08:20 AM by kingschosen.)
RE: A Question for S.T.Ranger
(13-06-2012 04:48 PM)S.T. Ranger Wrote:  
(13-06-2012 08:38 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  You're right about there being no perfect translation; however, there are more accurate ones.

The NIV is an abomination. I'm sorry to see you prefer it. Dynamic translations are good for people just trying to understand what the Bible says, but they are awful for actual study.

And the KJV... well, I'm tired of repeating myself.

I just find it strange that you want to be taken seriously in the realm of theology and use the NIV and KJV as your sources.

It would be like a scientist presenting his studies and finds to his peers using children's books on science with pictures and connect the dots.

You're just not taken seriously.

You actively deny fact (obvious fact) and continue to do it your way because that's how you like it.

You really need to check your facts, my friend. I avoided your earlier comment concerning the KJV, just as you have avoided my comments about translations in general.

You say that you are tired of repeating yourself, well, I feel the same. Would you care to comment on the issue of translational importance that has surrounded the efforts of Godly men throughout the centuries?

Men that did not betray their brothers that they might tickle the ears of those that hold him in derision?

You say the NIV is an abomination? Sounds very much like the ignorance of KJV Onlyism.

NASB onlyism? Good choice.

Have to go now, hope you don't mind me saying, but you see, I am running a little late for my mid-week indoctrination.

GTY
Holy crap on a stick. You cannot be this dense.

Let me try it this way. Do this exercise for me.

Your grandmother only speaks Russian. Your native language is American English. She has a message for you. She wrote it in a notebook.

I want you to list the circumstances from 1 to 7 (1 being the best 7 being the worst) on how to get the most literally accurate message from what your grandmother wrote.

A) You speak Russian fluently. You read the letter.

B) You take the letter to a Russian language expert, and he translates it to you in it's most literal sense. Russian word to English word.

C) You take the letter to a Russian language expert, and he translates it to you in English. He only changes sentence structure and grammar to make it coincide with English rules.

D) You take the letter to a Russian language expert, but he doesn't know English. He only knows French. He translates the letter into French. He only changes sentence structure and grammar to make it coincide with French rules. You take the French translation to a French language expert that translates it into British English.

E) You take the letter to a Russian language expert, but he doesn't know
English. He only knows French. He translates the letter into French.
He only changes sentence structure and grammar to make it coincide with French rules. You take the French translation to a French language
expert that translates it into British English. You take the British English translation to an English grammar expert and have it translated into American English; as to remove any idiosyncrasies.

F) You take the letter to a Russian language expert. He reads the letter and tells you the gist of it. He does not translate it literally or word for word; however, he simply tells you what the letter says.

G) You take the letter to a Russian language expert, but he doesn't know
English. He only knows French. He translates the letter into French.
He only changes sentence structure and grammar to make it coincide with French rules. You take the French translation to a French language
expert. He reads the letter and tells you the gist of it. He does not translate
it literally or word for word; however, he simply tells you what the
letter says from the French translation.

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like kingschosen's post
13-06-2012, 09:56 PM
RE: A Question for S.T.Ranger
I wonder why he keeps ignoring you, KC? Tongue (intimidated much?)

Humankind Dodgy (a total misnomer)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-06-2012, 10:03 PM
RE: A Question for S.T.Ranger
(13-06-2012 09:56 PM)aurora Wrote:  I wonder why he keeps ignoring you, KC? Tongue (intimidated much?)
Well, to be fair, he does address me, but it goes something like this:

Me - ST, how many fingers are a on a normal human's hand?
ST - KC, that's why cows sleep standing up.

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like kingschosen's post
14-06-2012, 02:05 AM
RE: A Question for S.T.Ranger
(12-06-2012 02:39 PM)S.T. Ranger Wrote:  
(11-06-2012 08:21 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  ST, how much money have you given to your church?

Only as much as I have purposed in my heart, every cent given willingly, and cheerfully.

Why do you ask? Is it thought that I am "being used" if I support ministry and missions, as spoken in God's word?

Let me now ask you: how much have you given to charities?

GTY
Consider the first line of your reply and you will know how you are being used.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-06-2012, 09:34 AM
RE: A Question for S.T.Ranger
(13-06-2012 08:13 PM)Hafnof Wrote:  So many posts, with so little said, and so many claiming victory about nothing. Sigh.

First, let me say I appreciate the fact that you have said this. There has been really no serious discussion, and any time it is mentioned it is mocked. So I hope you are sincere in wishing to dsicuss belief as adults, I welcome the change. Though to be fair, there have been a few here that have taken a serious approach to what is probably the most serious question we will answer in our lives, despite the conclusions we come to. Meaning, despite our conclusions and those beliefs we hold, to think that these beliefs are not a part of our individual make-up and for many direct the course of their lives we would be in serious denial.

So, I welcomne you to the conversation, and hope that it will be constructive.

(13-06-2012 08:13 PM)Hafnof Wrote:  S.T. Ranger: Is there anything specific you came on to the forum to say, or ask?

Yes. I name a few of those in a recent post:

1-Most who hate Christians know very little about the basis of the Christian faith, which is of course the Bible. What little they do know does not correspond to the actual writings of scripture, and they are forced to discredit textual evidence which is actually studied and accepted by scholars that speciallize in the field.

False statements are made, which is to be expected, but a recent development on this very forum shows open discussion of this tact in their proselytization efforts. And what is very sad is that they are unaware how shallow this is to the reasonable person.

2-Atheism is...a religious pursuit. It qualifies in definition as well as practice. The irony here is...a professed hatred for those that are religious by those that exhibit a religiosity that far exceeds the nominal Christian in zeal is unknown to them, making them byfar...their own worst enemy. Imagine, being that which one hates the most. But, to be fair, this is also identified in the lives of Christians, who, while trying to show the love of Christ to the world, fall on their faces and exhibit hatred also. While pointing to the atheist and despising them for their sin...they sin. Thus, for the believer who has the most basic grasp on biblical instruction, they also become that which they hate. On the plus side for the truly born-again, God reveals this to the sinner, whereby he is able to identify and correct this behavior.

3-For the religious atheist, there is exhibited a zeal born by hatred that leads them to, at times, the same mentality that we see in many leaders of cults. Development of a messiah complex is a real danger to the over-zealous, which may lead to production of literature meant to "save" individuals from whatever the focus of this individual's hatred is bent upon.



While this was quickly composed, it does represent a few things that I have tried to focus on while being here. It is not for the purpose of angering those that take offense at these underlying points, but simply for the reason of hoping to call them to attention.


We can see that it does in fact anger, and I present the alterations made to my own observations:

Quote:1-Most who hate Christians know very little about the basis of the Christian faith, which is of course the Bible. What little they do know does not correspond to the actual writings of scripture, and they are forced to discredit textual evidence which is actually studied and accepted by scholars that speciallize in the field.

2-Atheism is...a religious pursuit. It qualifies in definition as well as practice. The irony here is...a professed hatred for those that are religious by those that exhibit a religiosity that far exceeds the nominal Christian in zeal is unknown to them, making them byfar...their own worst enemy...bla bla bla.

3-For the religious atheist, there is exhibited a zeal born by hatred that leads them to, at times, the same mentality that we see in many leaders of cults. Development of a messiah complex is a real danger to the over-zealous, which may lead to production of literature meant to "save" individuals from whatever the focus of this individual's hatred is bent upon.


Now I ask you, Hafnof, are the observations really a matter of the eloquently stated...bla bla bla? Will you deny the religiosity of some that call themselves atheists? Will you ignore their efforts which replicate the efforts of Christians due to the overwhelming conviction that there is something in this world that people need to be warned about? For the believer, it is warning about separation from God; for the atheist, it is warning about religion?

But, another reason I came here was the boast of the homepage "we know the bible better than you do." In examining the treatment of many passages it became clear that not much effort went into study of the passages, hence, an examination of the basis of belief ensued. And what is very interesting in all of this is that many atheists make the exact same mistake that nominal Christians make, which is to parrot something they have heard, rather than examining what they have been told and comparing that to what scripture actually teaches. Or in the case of the atheist, comparing the teaching of the various groups with Biblical Doctrine.


(13-06-2012 08:13 PM)Hafnof Wrote:  Perhaps you (and we) could step back and treat each other like adults that actually have reasons for the things we believe or disbelieve.

I gladly welcome that, Hafnof.



(13-06-2012 08:13 PM)Hafnof Wrote:  Perhaps you in particular could tell us some of the things you believe, and why you believe them.

Where to start?

On a basic level, I believe that the will of God for man has been given to us in scripture. Within the framework of scripture God seeks to teach man that which He has revealed of Himself to man, as well as that which He has revealed about man, to man. It can be summed up like this: God is Holy, man is not. Man is separated from God by sin, a result of the disobedience of one man, Adam, and God has made provision to rectify that separation. Scripture has progressively revealed the will of God, and at this point relationship with God has progressed to separation from God on a spiritual plane has been made possible through the Sacrifice of Christ and the indwelling of God in the believer. Meaning, atonement for sin which was temporarily available (which is why it was repeated over and over) through the sacrificial system which is found in the Law (as well as before, i.e. Noah, Job, Abraham) has become complete in the Person of Jesus Christ, Who's sacrifice is in the place of the sinner that places their faith in Him, that He has taken the penalty for sin for those that look to Him for salvation.

(13-06-2012 08:13 PM)Hafnof Wrote:  That is, what do you mean when you say "God".

Just that: God. He is the Creator.

(13-06-2012 08:13 PM)Hafnof Wrote:  What is the nature of that god?

To name a few characteristics, holy, eternal, just, merciful.

(13-06-2012 08:13 PM)Hafnof Wrote:  What makes you think this god is real and has the properties you state for it?

There are a number of reasons. Most of which are personal, of course, not things that I can "prove" to you in a manner that might seem convincing. But here are a few things:

God has changed my life. And while it may seem a "self-help program" to some, the changes are, in my estimation, remarkable. I am not the person I used to be, it is as simple as that.

God works in my life. I can see His work in a number of ways, mostly internal, sometimes in ways that are apparent.

God speaks to me through His word, the Bible. I cannot share the joy of learning about God and coming to an understanding of His word. While I feel I have but scratched the surface, knowing full well how little I really do know, I rejoice at that which He has given me thus far, and look forward to a greater understanding in days ahead.

I see God's work in the lives of others. This includes the change that occurs in those that are born-again as well as mercies granted in areas of health. There is a man in my fellowship that doctors said would be dead in about six months, if I remember correctly. He is still alive, and doing well, for the most part.

I see true fellowship among believers that is not replicated in the world. Even among those that differ doctrinally. That is perhaps one area that I get a great amount of satisfaction when it comes to Christian fellowship. I have talked with many people, of differing faiths and denominations, and for those that with simple faith in Christ and His word that can come to the table without expressing more loyalty to their belief systen than to Christ, it an evidence of the Love of God in their hearts, which again, cannot be replicated by the world. And do not misunderstand, I do not demand that people embrace my doctrinal positions, but neither do my positions change in order to make friends. I believe what I believe through personal study, trusting that God will do that which He promised, and lead me into all truth by His Spirit.

Those are just a few things that I can mention off the top of my head.

(13-06-2012 08:13 PM)Hafnof Wrote:  Do you have a good reason to believe that exists outside of your own mental state,

Well, the fact is that it can be plainly be seen to be more than a condition of my mental state, seeing that there are so many that embrace the same beliefs I do. I cannot vouch for the veracity of the story, but it has been said of Helen Keller, when they were finally able to communicate with her and share the Gospel, that her response was, "I already knew Jesus, I just did not know His name." Whether that is true or not I do not know, but I do believe this principle is at work in all men.

Scripture tells us that within man the knowledge of His existance is present. So I look at what scripture teaches concerning sin and recognize that the nature of man leads him to do that which is right in his own eyes, suppressing that knowledge in preference of his own will. I believe this knowledge has been present in the world from the beginning, which may not be understood by those that reject the notion that God created man in fellowship with Himself, but, I take this position. It may not be embraced or even understood, but it what it is in my belief system.

(13-06-2012 08:13 PM)Hafnof Wrote:  and outside of the internal mental state of particular bible authors that the rest of us may have missed?

This is a reasonable question, Hafnof. Why is it that those that have "tried Christianity out" and left it did not "feel" the things that some Christians speak about?

First, the same principle is applied to the former part of the question (yours), in that we see internal evidence of the work of God within hearts and communities outside of the writers.

Secondly, we look at the basis of their "faith" and examine it. For example, some here profess they "were" Christians but now they are not. The first question would be...what makes you think you were a Christian? This is not taken very well and indignance at questioning the validity of their experience, irony aside, is a common reaction. But if it is taken to the next step, in which the simple question of "How does one become a Christian" were examined, what you will find is that not one of them can answer the question. Even among those that profess Christianity and are active in a fellowship, when asked this simple question most are unable to answer.

Christ taught that fruit would be in evidence to identify both believers and non-believers alike. One simple evidence would be continuance in the Way. So if we look at this with an objective view, and we see those that wash out of Christianity despite the scriptural teaching that this does not happen to those that are born-again, what conclusion would we come to?

That they did not in fact belong to the Lord...right?

(13-06-2012 08:13 PM)Hafnof Wrote:  What do you believe, and why do you believe it?

I have tried to give a few examples in this post, but, understand something that I have expressed many times since I have been here: I do not change hearts, and I try very hard not to change minds. It is a simple fact that if I change a mind, someone can come behind me and change it back. Only God does the work in the heart of man that produces true belief, true repentance, and true conversion. My gooal is simply to get, not just unbelievers, not just atheists, not just professing believers, but, myself included in that list...to examine the basis of our beliefs.

My basis is God's word, it is simple as that. The "proofs" that I view as evidence that I have been born again into the family of God mean very little to anyone else, but I cannot deny what has taken place in my life since first I turned to the Lord.

And understand, the believer should be his own worst critic. I look at the thoughts and intents of my heart, my actions, my words, and believe me, there is not one person that judges them more severely than I do myself. It is a constant struggle to seek to conform my life and actions to the standard which is expressed in scripture, but I take comfort in the fact that I am not alone in this endeavor, however strange or silly that might sound to you. This is one of the evidences in my life that validate the truth of scripture in my own "mental state," lol.

Okay, again, thanks for the interjection into the fray, lol, it was a welcome change to the norm.

GTY
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: