A Question for Theists (and others) About Heaven
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29-03-2016, 08:00 AM
RE: A Question for Theists (and others) About Heaven
(22-03-2016 10:18 AM)SYZ Wrote:  A question raised on Quora.com...

"From a Christian point of view, is it better to be an atheist that does good works, a Christian that does no good works (and is generally selfish) or a Christian that does bad things—murder, rape, pedophilia, etc?"

• Will God allow a pedophile to repent of his sins and enter heaven?

It would be a sad world if a man who was truly repentant of what he did, if he truly changed, and was remorseful of his past actions, is not able to be forgiven. It's usually when we see them as not truly remorseful or repentant, that we refuse to forgive them.

When we hear stories like how that black church that was a victim of a mass shooting, forgave the man who did it, we seem particularly moved by that story, to find forgiveness beyond their hatred and resentment for him, to desire that he find healing himself, and not just be punished.

Is that a bad thing? I would think it is a good thing.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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29-03-2016, 08:19 AM
RE: A Question for Theists (and others) About Heaven
I'm not sure how I missed this spank-fest the first time around. Sorry I'm late.

(29-03-2016 07:57 AM)ScottD Wrote:  You haven't taken the time to study the Bibe, or you would know what you are saying is not true.
How the hell do you know what he (or any of us) have studied?


(29-03-2016 07:57 AM)ScottD Wrote:  You, loike other atheists rely solely on what they hear from others regarding scripture.
That would be a sweeping generalization and offensive to many on this board.

It is also completely false.

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29-03-2016, 08:32 AM
RE: A Question for Theists (and others) About Heaven
(29-03-2016 07:52 AM)ScottD Wrote:  The Bible is interpreted as a whole work. You can pick individual verses and interpret them as meaning almost anything.

Yeah. You would think that an omnipotent and omniscient god would be able to convey his message in such a way as to avoid misinterpretations. Especially since understanding said message is the difference between eternal salvation and eternal damnation.

Scenario: Someone you love is in a building. You know that building will be incinerated in a natural disaster.
You, quite obviously, want to warn your loved one.
If your loved one is not warned, they will remain inside and suffer a hideous death.
You and only you can warn them.

How do you convey this dire message?
Do you email them?
Do you use a telephone?
Do you send a mutual friend?

Or do you use a language that the person doesn't speak, and verbally pass it through ten or fifteen friends (who also don't speak the language) then have another friend translate the garbled message into English, scribble it down in crayon and drop it in the mail.

(29-03-2016 07:52 AM)ScottD Wrote:  As a whole, the Bible conveys there is a trinity and they are one. father/son/holy spitrit

So jesus sacrificed himself to himself,
to circumvent blood sacrifice rules that he set up,
to atone for sins that he knew we would commit before he created us,
to save us from the eternal damnation that he himself damned us to.

But we atheists are unreasonable...

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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29-03-2016, 08:43 AM
RE: A Question for Theists (and others) About Heaven
(29-03-2016 08:00 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(22-03-2016 10:18 AM)SYZ Wrote:  A question raised on Quora.com...

"From a Christian point of view, is it better to be an atheist that does good works, a Christian that does no good works (and is generally selfish) or a Christian that does bad things—murder, rape, pedophilia, etc?"

• Will God allow a pedophile to repent of his sins and enter heaven?

It would be a sad world if a man who was truly repentant of what he did, if he truly changed, and was remorseful of his past actions, is not able to be forgiven. It's usually when we see them as not truly remorseful or repentant, that we refuse to forgive them.

When we hear stories like how that black church that was a victim of a mass shooting, forgave the man who did it, we seem particularly moved by that story, to find forgiveness beyond their hatred and resentment for him, to desire that he find healing himself, and not just be punished.

Is that a bad thing? I would think it is a good thing.
Who is this we?

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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29-03-2016, 09:56 AM
RE: A Question for Theists (and others) About Heaven
(29-03-2016 08:19 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(29-03-2016 07:57 AM)ScottD Wrote:  You, loike other atheists rely solely on what they hear from others regarding scripture.
That would be a sweeping generalization and offensive to many on this board.

It is also completely false.

Not to mention ironic given the number of believers who have read very little of it and believe based only on what they've been told it says.

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29-03-2016, 10:06 AM
RE: A Question for Theists (and others) About Heaven
(29-03-2016 08:43 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Who is this we?

Probably not you.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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29-03-2016, 10:06 AM
RE: A Question for Theists (and others) About Heaven
Ha. Knight in shining armour bent on saving the world encounters the Knights who say Ni Big Grin

Knights who say NI!

We demand a shrubbery!

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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29-03-2016, 10:37 AM
RE: A Question for Theists (and others) About Heaven
(29-03-2016 10:06 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(29-03-2016 08:43 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Who is this we?

Probably not you.
Yes because I think actually well of people to the point where forgiving criminals who acted against you isn't moving.

It comes off far more disrespecting and misanthropic than you probably think it does. So if you mean we even as christians and not humans as a whole as the context felt it did. I would hope you think of humanity in not as cynical a way.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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29-03-2016, 11:08 AM
RE: A Question for Theists (and others) About Heaven
(29-03-2016 10:37 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(29-03-2016 10:06 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Probably not you.
Yes because I think actually well of people to the point where forgiving criminals who acted against you isn't moving.

It comes off far more disrespecting and misanthropic than you probably think it does.


Perhaps you can elaborate on this, how is forgiving someone disrespectful and misanthropic?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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29-03-2016, 11:49 AM
RE: A Question for Theists (and others) About Heaven
(29-03-2016 11:08 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(29-03-2016 10:37 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Yes because I think actually well of people to the point where forgiving criminals who acted against you isn't moving.

It comes off far more disrespecting and misanthropic than you probably think it does.


Perhaps you can elaborate on this, how is forgiving someone disrespectful and misanthropic?

Your notion that it is moving is what I am referring to by saying it is disrespecting and misanthropic.

That is the point I find stunning. It beckons this feeling of thinking so little of humanity to phrase someones forgiving actions as moving, wow, remarkable, etc.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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