A Question for Theists (and others) About Heaven
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 1 Votes - 5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
22-03-2016, 03:05 PM
RE: A Question for Theists (and others) About Heaven



There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes GirlyMan's post
22-03-2016, 03:06 PM
RE: A Question for Theists (and others) About Heaven
(22-03-2016 03:03 PM)ScottD Wrote:  
(22-03-2016 02:16 PM)SYZ Wrote:  Welcome to the TTA forums Scott. Smile

Unfortunately, simply quoting the Christian bible chapter and verse doesn't really address my question as it's seen from your personal point of view. It's not acceptable here that theists use their bible as so-called "evidence" for anything, as it's yet to be proved by anyone that it actually is the work of a purported omnipotent entity. So... do you agree that paedophiles should be welcome in heaven if they repent of their sins?

You asked for a Christian point of view. As a Christian, my point of view is based on what I believe to be Christ's teaching i.e.: The Bible.

I'm not presenting evidence of any kind, This is my point of view.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
22-03-2016, 03:10 PM
RE: A Question for Theists (and others) About Heaven
(22-03-2016 03:03 PM)ScottD Wrote:  
(22-03-2016 02:16 PM)SYZ Wrote:  Welcome to the TTA forums Scott. Smile

Unfortunately, simply quoting the Christian bible chapter and verse doesn't really address my question as it's seen from your personal point of view. It's not acceptable here that theists use their bible as so-called "evidence" for anything, as it's yet to be proved by anyone that it actually is the work of a purported omnipotent entity. So... do you agree that paedophiles should be welcome in heaven if they repent of their sins?

You asked for a Christian point of view. As a Christian, my point of view is based on what I believe to be Christ's teaching i.e.: The Bible.

You have not explained how this verse relates to the questions posed by the OP.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
22-03-2016, 03:25 PM
RE: A Question for Theists (and others) About Heaven
(22-03-2016 03:10 PM)julep Wrote:  
(22-03-2016 03:03 PM)ScottD Wrote:  

You have not explained how this verse relates to the questions posed by the OP.

I think the question provokes a response from a Christian to say pedophilia is forgiveable. If I say yes, what comes next?

The teachings of Christ are very clear on what is sin. We know in our hearts what is right and wrong. The verse I quoted tells us that any sin can keep us from God.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
22-03-2016, 03:53 PM
RE: A Question for Theists (and others) About Heaven
(22-03-2016 03:25 PM)ScottD Wrote:  
(22-03-2016 03:10 PM)julep Wrote:  You have not explained how this verse relates to the questions posed by the OP.

I think the question provokes a response from a Christian to say pedophilia is forgiveable. If I say yes, what comes next?

The teachings of Christ are very clear on what is sin. We know in our hearts what is right and wrong. The verse I quoted tells us that any sin can keep us from God.

So your answer seems to be, "no true Christian would be a pedophile." Is that correct?

You have entirely dodged the question, which was, is it better to be an atheist that does good works, a Christian that does no good works, or a Christian that does bad things? The question wasn't, "are all of these people considered sinners by your god"? The first question was, which of these three types of people is the best, according to a Christian POV? If you say, they're all equally offensive to god, I think that's begging the question, we are asking how as a Christian you would judge them.

And you still have not addressed the point about a sinning Christian. Let's go down from pedophilia to, say, telling a lie. Would a Christian who told a lie be forgiven? What about a Christian who knowingly sells a lousy car? What about a Christian who tithes but resents having to pay? Presumably all of these Christians still know in their hearts that their actions are wrong. Where does the scale stop sliding? Are these Christians better than a truthful atheist who gladly gives to charity?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 5 users Like julep's post
22-03-2016, 04:02 PM
RE: A Question for Theists (and others) About Heaven
(22-03-2016 10:18 AM)SYZ Wrote:  A question raised on Quora.com...

"From a Christian point of view, is it better to be an atheist that does good works, a Christian that does no good works (and is generally selfish) or a Christian that does bad things—murder, rape, pedophilia, etc?"

• Will God allow a pedophile to repent of his sins and enter heaven?
• Do Christians judge you more by the beliefs in your head, or by your behaviour toward your fellow man?

Consider

My nephews were once told in reference to me by their still religious family that it is worse to go to the wrong church than none at all!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes DerFish's post
22-03-2016, 04:02 PM
RE: A Question for Theists (and others) About Heaven
(22-03-2016 03:25 PM)ScottD Wrote:  The teachings of Christ are very clear on what is sin.

They are?

(22-03-2016 03:25 PM)ScottD Wrote:  We know in our hearts what is right and wrong.

We do? Or you just believe that we know such?

(22-03-2016 03:25 PM)ScottD Wrote:  The verse I quoted tells us that any sin can keep us from God.

I don't think so - verse say that we all sin and none of us is as glorious/worthy of praise as god.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Szuchow's post
22-03-2016, 04:04 PM
RE: A Question for Theists (and others) About Heaven
(22-03-2016 03:25 PM)ScottD Wrote:  
(22-03-2016 03:10 PM)julep Wrote:  You have not explained how this verse relates to the questions posed by the OP.

I think the question provokes a response from a Christian to say pedophilia is forgiveable. If I say yes, what comes next?

The teachings of Christ are very clear on what is sin. We know in our hearts what is right and wrong. The verse I quoted tells us that any sin can keep us from God.

Here I thunk all ya had to do was hang your head and ask God Jr to wipe that sin out too and you were back in!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
22-03-2016, 04:18 PM
RE: A Question for Theists (and others) About Heaven
(22-03-2016 03:53 PM)julep Wrote:  
(22-03-2016 03:25 PM)ScottD Wrote:  

So your answer seems to be, "no true Christian would be a pedophile." Is that correct?

You have entirely dodged the question, which was, is it better to be an atheist that does good works, a Christian that does no good works, or a Christian that does bad things?

The verse I quoted says NONE are better. that is also my POV.

The question wasn't, "are all of these people considered sinners by your god"? The first question was, which of these three types of people is the best, according to a Christian POV? If you say, they're all equally offensive to god, I think that's begging the question, we are asking how as a Christian you would judge them.

As a Christian, I am commanded to not judge them.

And you still have not addressed the point about a sinning Christian. Let's go down from pedophilia to, say, telling a lie. Would a Christian who told a lie be forgiven? What about a Christian who knowingly sells a lousy car? What about a Christian who tithes but resents having to pay? Presumably all of these Christians still know in their hearts that their actions are wrong. Where does the scale stop sliding? Are these Christians better than a truthful atheist who gladly gives to charity?

) Christians are not better than anyone.
) Christians are sinners right along side of atheists.
) Christians are forgiven.
) Atheists can be only by believing

These supporting verses are also my POV.

Isaiah 64:6
All of us have become like one who is unclean,
and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags;
we all shrivel up like a leaf,
and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

John 3:16

16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
22-03-2016, 04:21 PM
RE: A Question for Theists (and others) About Heaven
(22-03-2016 04:04 PM)DerFish Wrote:  
(22-03-2016 03:25 PM)ScottD Wrote:  

Here I thunk all ya had to do was hang your head and ask God Jr to wipe that sin out too and you were back in!

Exactly @DerFish, good ol' God Jr. fixed it right up! I mean wasn't that the whole point of having Jesus brutally tortured and crucified? So all us sinful humans could get a free ride to Heaven as long as we accept his sacrifice? I would think that would effectively cleanse any and all sins? I know it sounds bad to forgive anything, even mass murder, rape, etc. but, that's the whole point, God is so loving he will forgive you and accept you no matter what. Yes, that's highly immoral, yes it's unfair to good people who don't believe in God, yes it's not true so we can sleep easy at night.

[Image: sagansig_zps6vhbql6m.jpg]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like SitaSky's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: