A Question of Order
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12-11-2012, 04:57 AM
 
Rainbow A Question of Order
A collegue at work posed this question: If there is no order in the universe, why doesn't the sun sometimes rise in the South. Huh
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12-11-2012, 05:25 AM
RE: A Question of Order
False premise. Tongue

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12-11-2012, 05:25 AM
RE: A Question of Order
(12-11-2012 04:57 AM)Egor Wrote:  A collegue at work posed this question: If there is no order in the universe, why doesn't the sun sometimes rise in the South. Huh

Who says there's no order in the universe?

Specifically solar system is pretty damn orderly. Speculation is that during it's birth it was a lot hairier place, but it's been around long enough now that things like asteroids hitting planets are a lot more infrequent.
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12-11-2012, 05:46 AM
RE: A Question of Order
(12-11-2012 04:57 AM)Egor Wrote:  A collegue at work posed this question: If there is no order in the universe, why doesn't the sun sometimes rise in the South. Huh
Anyone can look at the old footage of Shoemaker-Levy 9 crashing into Jupiter and tell that our solar system, and certainly our Universe are NOT orderly.

However, if you look out at the amazing nebulae, constellations, galaxies, and even the visible planets, and you can tell that it is a wonderful and beautiful the chaos of our universe truly is.

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12-11-2012, 05:54 AM
RE: A Question of Order
(12-11-2012 05:46 AM)publius2k4 Wrote:  
(12-11-2012 04:57 AM)Egor Wrote:  A collegue at work posed this question: If there is no order in the universe, why doesn't the sun sometimes rise in the South. Huh
Anyone can look at the old footage of Shoemaker-Levy 9 crashing into Jupiter and tell that our solar system, and certainly our Universe are NOT orderly.

However, if you look out at the amazing nebulae, constellations, galaxies, and even the visible planets, and you can tell that it is a wonderful and beautiful the chaos of our universe truly is.

Of course it's orderly. During every nano-second of that crash into Jupiter, every atom in the comets, and the comets themselves, and Jupiter followed 100%b the Laws of Physics, Chemistry, Motion, and Probability. What you perceive as "random" isn't really random. There was nothing that happened that was outside the physical laws. Nothing in this universe is "disorderly". Even the randomness of Quantum Mechanics follow the laws of Probability. In Chaos Theory, the Mandelbrot set arises spontaneously. The universe in 100 % orderly.

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Yeah, for verily I say unto thee, and this we know : Jebus no likey that which doth tickle thee unto thy nether regions.

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12-11-2012, 05:56 AM
 
RE: A Question of Order
(12-11-2012 05:25 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  False premise. Tongue


What do you mean a "false premise"? It's a question.
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12-11-2012, 05:58 AM
RE: A Question of Order
(12-11-2012 05:56 AM)Egor Wrote:  
(12-11-2012 05:25 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  False premise. Tongue


What do you mean a "false premise"? It's a question.

The premise is : "if there is no order".
There IS order.
The premise is false.

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Yeah, for verily I say unto thee, and this we know : Jebus no likey that which doth tickle thee unto thy nether regions.

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12-11-2012, 06:23 AM
RE: A Question of Order
(12-11-2012 05:25 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  False premise. Tongue
Yeah, that. If you're going to say something like "If all bagels are made out of rock, then why are they edible?", the second part of the argument isn't worth considering if the first part is not true. What would make you believe that "there is no order to the universe?" Just because we believe there's no God at work doesn't mean we think that no forces at all are at work. For example, consider the "order" in countries. If you suppose that God is not a variable (He's present in both countries with and without laws), then are we to suppose that a country without laws has just as much order as a country with laws because God is the source of "order"?

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12-11-2012, 06:25 AM
RE: A Question of Order
(12-11-2012 05:58 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(12-11-2012 05:56 AM)Egor Wrote:  What do you mean a "false premise"? It's a question.

The premise is : "if there is no order".
There IS order.
The premise is false.
This is why I've suggested before that you ought to elaborate, because otherwise the person you're correcting won't get it. If Egor knew what a false premise was, he probably wouldn't have made an argument with a false premise.

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12-11-2012, 08:11 AM
RE: A Question of Order
What's all this about no order then? Did I miss the Monday meeting? Is the email in my spam folder?

The question is kind of like, "If you've had sex with fifteen children, then why aren't you a pedophile?" Well... I haven't had sex with ANY children (I just want to make that perfectly clear Cool ) so the question is meaningless.

Who exactly is claiming that there's no order? I've heard neither Theists nor Atheists making that claim.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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