A Question of Order
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
12-11-2012, 05:47 PM
RE: A Question of Order
(12-11-2012 05:34 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(12-11-2012 05:28 PM)Chas Wrote:  Oh, good. Fun with words. Drinking Beverage

Nothing to see (or hear) here, folks; move along.

Smart move to go with Math as your Major, 'cause you'd've had no fuckin' prayer with Phil. Tongue
I was recruited to join the graduate program in philosophy at university. Piss off.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Chas's post
12-11-2012, 05:48 PM (This post was last modified: 12-11-2012 05:53 PM by Mr Woof.)
RE: A Question of Order
(12-11-2012 05:43 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  
(12-11-2012 05:58 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The premise is : "if there is no order".
There IS order.
The premise is false.
I don't see the premise as false?
(12-11-2012 05:43 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  If seems sound enough.....
(12-11-2012 05:43 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  Order based somehow on abiogenesis is a rough sort of order. We may not like the fuzzy order but it is coherent to some degree, as Egor seems to postulate,
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-11-2012, 05:49 PM
RE: A Question of Order
(12-11-2012 05:32 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The reality exists external to perception, and if there had been a recording device it would have detected, and recorded it, in both cases.

Not so sure of that. Don't find it to be self-evident, intuitive yes, self-evident no. If there were no recording device, what then? I think that gets to the meat of the anthropic principle. Without an observer shit's just in an indeterminate probabilistic state. I don't lose sleep over it.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-11-2012, 05:49 PM (This post was last modified: 12-11-2012 05:56 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: A Question of Order
(12-11-2012 05:47 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(12-11-2012 05:34 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Smart move to go with Math as your Major, 'cause you'd've had no fuckin' prayer with Phil. Tongue
I was recruited to join the graduate program in philosophy at university. Piss off.

Probably for the best you didn't join them. Big Grin

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-11-2012, 06:36 PM
RE: A Question of Order
It amuses me how self-important humans can be. This notion that something isn't, unless we are present to perceive it, is not only silly, but egotistical beyond my comprehension.

So many cats, so few good recipes.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Stark Raving's post
12-11-2012, 06:45 PM
A Question of Order
(12-11-2012 05:35 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Egor.

Soooooooo your response is to suggest that I'm a closet pedophile. That... that's what you bring? Wow. Just wow.

I was gonna swear just now, but I've decided not to.

We would also like you to answer the question of when did you stop beating your wife?

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-11-2012, 06:46 PM
A Question of Order
(12-11-2012 06:36 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  It amuses me how self-important humans can be. This notion that something isn't, unless we are present to perceive it, is not only silly, but egotistical beyond my comprehension.

Man, that's because you and I have visited mystical planes together so we get it, man. These squares with their rules and order, they just won't ever get it, man.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Erxomai's post
12-11-2012, 07:10 PM
RE: A Question of Order
(12-11-2012 03:26 PM)Egor Wrote:  
(12-11-2012 05:58 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The premise is : "if there is no order".
There IS order.
The premise is false.

Was there order before there were human beings to perceive it?
If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

How can we know if there was order in a place and time that we're unable to measure? We can't. But your friend's question assumed an answer to this question, and there needs to be positive evidence of that to proceed, not "reasonable doubt" that his premise could have been true at one time.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-11-2012, 07:12 PM
RE: A Question of Order
(12-11-2012 05:49 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(12-11-2012 05:47 PM)Chas Wrote:  I was recruited to join the graduate program in philosophy at university. Piss off.

Probably for the best you didn't join them. Big Grin
That's a possibility to consider.













Ok, I considered it. Piss off.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-11-2012, 07:18 PM
RE: A Question of Order
(12-11-2012 07:10 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  
(12-11-2012 03:26 PM)Egor Wrote:  Was there order before there were human beings to perceive it?
If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

How can we know if there was order in a place and time that we're unable to measure? We can't. But your friend's question assumed an answer to this question, and there needs to be positive evidence of that to proceed, not "reasonable doubt" that his premise could have been true at one time.
Because things had to have happened that were not observed to get us from point a to point b in the past, that led to the evolution of biological entities with the capacity to observe. Things don't need to be observed by biologically live entities to make them real. All over the universe they are happening without being observed. Things are changing without being observed. Also there is no absolute boundary between life , (to observe), and non-life. In order for Chemistry and Physics to proceed there must be "order".

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: