A Rock So Heavy
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25-11-2013, 01:28 PM
RE: A Rock So Heavy
(22-11-2013 02:50 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  And the real rock is Jesus Christ.

Er, no. The real rock is Dwayne Johnson.

8000 years before Jesus, the Egyptian god Horus said, "I am the way, the truth, the life."
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25-11-2013, 01:29 PM
RE: A Rock So Heavy
(25-11-2013 01:04 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(25-11-2013 12:20 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  Did you mean "loser"...? Wink

(25-11-2013 12:02 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  Incorrect. The GRP is Reductio Ad Absudum.

Did you mean "absurdum"...? Tongue

LOLYUP.


Quote:Yeah, for a graduate student, Bucky's spelling and grammar is, at times, atrocious. I irregularly (because regularly would be like a job) give him shit for it. Big Grin
LOL. I only asked for clarification because the misspelling made the statement incomprehensible. To me, anyway....

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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25-11-2013, 01:31 PM
RE: A Rock So Heavy
(25-11-2013 01:01 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  I did define the infinities.

Likewise, the question assumes the infinities asserted by Christian theology.

And being infinitely less than another infinity is invalid. That cannot be.

Infinite has no beginning or end; therefore, no less or more.

I understand that you're comparing two different infinities to each other, but then saying that one is more or one is less is invalid. That's presuming that one has limits.

And, I'm still not agreeing with you that omnipotence's infinities can have certain limitations.

EX - Self limiting

That's not being infinite. It's being nearly infinite but not infinite.

I don't think one has to clearly define the infinities of this argument. The words' denotations are enough.

Did you throw a bunch of word magnets at your refrigerator and copy down the results to your post?

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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25-11-2013, 01:35 PM (This post was last modified: 25-11-2013 01:40 PM by cjlr.)
RE: A Rock So Heavy
(25-11-2013 01:01 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  I did define the infinities.

No, you just said "infinite is infinite". That's not good enough.

(25-11-2013 01:01 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Likewise, the question assumes the infinities asserted by Christian theology.

Which are just "infinite is infinite". That's not good enough.

(25-11-2013 01:01 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  And being infinitely less than another infinity is invalid. That cannot be.

Infinite has no beginning or end; therefore, no less or more.

Not quite.

(25-11-2013 01:01 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  I understand that you're comparing two different infinities to each other, but then saying that one is more or one is less is invalid. That's presuming that one has limits.

No, because they can have different cardinalities, while still both being equally 'infinite' in the simplest sense of not being finite in size (and if I had to pick a sense of infinity as I interpret traditional Christian theology, it is "merely" so).

If I have a hotel of infinitely many rooms, all occupied, I can still fit infinitely more guests in. The rooms and guests here being natural numbers, and we have the same countable infinity to shuffle back and forth.

But there is no one-to-one correspondence between sets of differing cardinality. The set of real numbers is greater than the set of natural numbers. Not in the sense of the size of elements of those sets (3 > 2) but in a very real and demonstrable way, which proceeds inevitably from the definitions underlying them.

For bonus fun, we note that there are necessarily infinitely many sizes of infinity.

That sort of thing.

(25-11-2013 01:01 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  And, I'm still not agreeing with you that omnipotence's infinities can have certain limitations.

EX - Self limiting

That's not being infinite. It's being nearly infinite but not infinite.

The only remotely coherent definitions of the term, to me, necessarily include that aspect. But that's me, not everyone else who's ever had problems with such lacking definitions.

To talk about something we need to be able to agree on what we're talking about!

That's different from asserting incoherently ill-defined qualities and going "NUH UH IT'S INEFFABLE" when asked for greater specificity.

... Because if that's really the case you can just skip right to "ineffable". The intermediate steps are wasting everyone's time.

(25-11-2013 01:01 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  I don't think one has to clearly define the infinities of this argument. The words' denotations are enough.

They are infinitely far from sufficing.

... this is my signature!
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25-11-2013, 01:38 PM
RE: A Rock So Heavy
(23-11-2013 06:04 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(22-11-2013 04:16 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  sigh

Do you want the real answer?

Sigh. There is no real answer. It is philosophical masturbation. Drinking Beverage

My apologies to all concerned for my part in this orgy! Had a philosophical boner there! I was thinking of creating philosophicalboners.com . But that would require effort on my part and possibly a decrease in alcohol intake.
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25-11-2013, 01:53 PM
RE: A Rock So Heavy
I think I finally unmasked PJ, and his public preaching.
This is by Trinity Church in downtown NYC. PJ, is that you?

Consider

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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25-11-2013, 02:08 PM
RE: A Rock So Heavy
(25-11-2013 01:01 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  I did define the infinities.

Likewise, the question assumes the infinities asserted by Christian theology.

And being infinitely less than another infinity is invalid. That cannot be.

Infinite has no beginning or end; therefore, no less or more.

I understand that you're comparing two different infinities to each other, but then saying that one is more or one is less is invalid. That's presuming that one has limits.

And, I'm still not agreeing with you that omnipotence's infinities can have certain limitations.

EX - Self limiting

That's not being infinite. It's being nearly infinite but not infinite.

I don't think one has to clearly define the infinities of this argument. The words' denotations are enough.

Sorry, kc, you are simply wrong. There are infinitely many different sized infinities.

You are barred from further discussions of infinity until you bone up on Cantor. Dodgy

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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25-11-2013, 02:36 PM
RE: A Rock So Heavy
True infinity encompasses everything because it is limitless. I'm aware of the mathematical multiple infinities, but that is simply math which itself, of course, imposes a limit.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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25-11-2013, 02:37 PM
RE: A Rock So Heavy
(25-11-2013 02:08 PM)Chas Wrote:  You are barred from further discussions of infinity until you bone up on Cantor. Dodgy

There will be *no* boning up the Cantor. Angry

In other news...

Bechased

...there goes KC. Tongue

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25-11-2013, 02:59 PM
RE: A Rock So Heavy
(25-11-2013 01:53 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  I think I finally unmasked PJ, and his public preaching.
This is by Trinity Church in downtown NYC. PJ, is that you?

Consider

Nope. My sign would say instead, "Atheists are in denial, just like Christians" and would draw thousands of people to come ask my about the sign.

Seriously, Trinity Church is worth a visit for insight into everything from National Treasure to 9/11.
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