A Series Of Questions For Atheists
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03-08-2014, 07:31 AM
RE: A Series Of Questions For Atheists
(03-08-2014 07:09 AM)Mini Gun Fodder Wrote:  
(03-08-2014 01:11 AM)pablo628 Wrote:  You know the so called creators perspective how exactly?

Its pretty well documented.

And what is documented is a truly horrific perspective. So, there's that. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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03-08-2014, 07:48 AM
RE: A Series Of Questions For Atheists
(03-08-2014 12:48 AM)Mini Gun Fodder Wrote:  Even the destruction of the world via the deluge of Noah's day wouldn't constitute genocide from the creator's perspective.

Nice moral failure there, this is the ugly side of your mythology on full display.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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03-08-2014, 10:58 AM (This post was last modified: 03-08-2014 11:26 AM by Reltzik.)
RE: A Series Of Questions For Atheists
(03-08-2014 12:48 AM)Mini Gun Fodder Wrote:  When you say genocide you are probably referring to the complete destruction of an entire race of people, whereas with the Creator there would only be one race. Even the destruction of the world via the deluge of Noah's day wouldn't constitute genocide from the creator's perspective.

Genocide does not require the complete destruction of an entire race of people. Some Jews survived the Holocaust, some Tutsis survived in Rwanda, and so on. These are two episodes that people will immediately reach for as examples of genocide, and yet under your... curious definition, they would not qualify.

If you're trying to dispute the immorality of killing virtually every member of the human race, along with almost every living thing on the entire planet, through semantic games over the word "genocide", you'd do better to cherry-pick the definitions of genocide that require the perpetrator to be a government, bureaucracy, or conspiracy, which would exclude an individual like the Abrahamic God.

... unless you buy into the Trinity. That could count as a conspiracy.

But either way, you'd be missing the point. Which I've bolded for you. In case you had trouble identifying it. Which you did, earlier.

(03-08-2014 12:33 AM)Mini Gun Fodder Wrote:  If by some remarkable turn of events you mature beyond your own arguably wild expectations perhaps you could define the term god.

Wait, it's on US, the people listening to the claims and not buying them, to define exactly what it is that's being claimed?

... COOL!

I'm going to say that when you talk about "god", you're referring exclusively to Dirawong.

If at any time you wish to take back the ability to define or clarify what you mean by the term "god", you are welcome to do all three.
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03-08-2014, 11:03 AM
RE: A Series Of Questions For Atheists
(03-08-2014 12:48 AM)Mini Gun Fodder Wrote:  
(02-08-2014 12:07 PM)Wicked Clown Wrote:  I have a question for the OP since His questions were answered. So, do you believe slavery and genocide can be justified? If not, do you disagree with God's decision to commit those acts of genocide and justification of slavery found in "sacred"
Scripture?

If not, are you smarter than God? Either you approve of God's actions and therefore approve of genocide and slavery or you don't. The answer is black and white. Which one is it?

Surprise - almost an interesting response, in that it could provide the basis for a possible interesting discussion.

When you say slavery you are probably thinking of the European and American slave trade of a more recent history, which would have been punishable by death in the time of Moses according to the Bible. I would prefer the slavery of the Bible to, lets say, the modern American penal system, but not the slavery of Thomas Jefferson's time.

When you say genocide you are probably referring to the complete destruction of an entire race of people, whereas with the Creator there would only be one race. Even the destruction of the world via the deluge of Noah's day wouldn't constitute genocide from the creator's perspective.

How about the fact that God killed Children himself and is the Greatest Serial Killer the World has ever seen?
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03-08-2014, 11:11 AM
RE: A Series Of Questions For Atheists
(03-08-2014 12:33 AM)Mini Gun Fodder Wrote:  
(30-07-2014 09:49 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  1. You didn't ask a single question, let alone a series of them.

2. I've often wondered if I had it in me to believe in a god. I wasn't "raised atheist". I was raised without mention of religion (my parents are theists though). I never took the god story any more seriously than I took a Disney movie.

I am confident that beyond the age of 6 I couldn't be convinced of a god (without actual evidence). But who knows what it would be like if I was indoctrinated as a baby? Scary.

5 pages in response to the absence of one question mark and I think the atheists have just about worked it out on their own, and are desperate to disagree with anything a theist says.

Just to recap - you never took the god story any more seriously than you took a Disney Movie and you are confident that beyond the age of 6 you couldn't be convinced of a god. That pretty much established your intellectual capacity.

If by some remarkable turn of events you mature beyond your own arguably wild expectations perhaps you could define the term god.
Oh goody...you came back....

Well your tone definitely isn't welcome, as I answered your "question" with honesty. And for the record, I thought you were an atheist when I posted my response. There was no prejudice there, regardless of what you might be trying to read out of it.


But whatever, I'm a little past getting upset over a difference of beliefs. I suppose you see acceptance of god's existence as an intelligent decision. Whereas I see no difference between the god stories or the ancient Greek tales, or even modern fantasies such as Harry Potter. I have never seen reason to accept any god stories as true because there have never been any recorded instances of a god influencing the universe in any way. At most I can understand a deist argument as that is appealing to our lack of complete knowledge of our origins.

As for defining god, I don't know what game you are playing but I'm pretty sure you and I have the same understanding of what a god is supposed to be. As you are apparently the one who believes in such a being, you are the one more suited to define or describe it. When you do, I will gladly tell you if I think it exists or not.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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03-08-2014, 11:31 AM
RE: A Series Of Questions For Atheists
(03-08-2014 12:48 AM)Mini Gun Fodder Wrote:  
(02-08-2014 12:07 PM)Wicked Clown Wrote:  I have a question for the OP since His questions were answered. So, do you believe slavery and genocide can be justified? If not, do you disagree with God's decision to commit those acts of genocide and justification of slavery found in "sacred"
Scripture?

If not, are you smarter than God? Either you approve of God's actions and therefore approve of genocide and slavery or you don't. The answer is black and white. Which one is it?

Surprise - almost an interesting response, in that it could provide the basis for a possible interesting discussion.

When you say slavery you are probably thinking of the European and American slave trade of a more recent history, which would have been punishable by death in the time of Moses according to the Bible. I would prefer the slavery of the Bible to, lets say, the modern American penal system, but not the slavery of Thomas Jefferson's time.

When you say genocide you are probably referring to the complete destruction of an entire race of people, whereas with the Creator there would only be one race. Even the destruction of the world via the deluge of Noah's day wouldn't constitute genocide from the creator's perspective.

You are deliberately misinterpreting scripture.

Quote:If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

This passage makes it clear that children of slaves, or indentured servants (if they happened to be hebrew), belong to their master. Not for a period of seven years, but for life.

Quote:When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

This passage speaks for itself.

Quote: Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

This is a new testament verse. Jesus could have correct the old testament on slavery if he chose to (or rather if the people writing about him chose to). They/he did not.

Quote:Leviticus 25:44-46 (NASB):
44As for your male and female slaves whom you may have—you may acquire male and female slaves from the pagan nations that are around you. 45Then, too, it is out of the sons of the sojourners who live as aliens among you that you may gain acquisition, and out of their families who are with you, whom they will have produced in your land; they also may become your possession. 46You may even bequeath them to your sons after you, to receive as a possession; you can use them as permanent slaves. But in respect to your countrymen, the sons of Israel, you shall not rule with severity over one another.

This passage says slaves can be inherited, bought, and sold (provided they are not hebrew. Rules for hebrew slaves are a bit different). This is in every way comparable to the african slave trade, in the states and else where. There is nothing benign about biblical slavery.

As for genocide:

Quote:And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain. Deuteronomy 2:34

And we utterly destroyed them, ... utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city. Deuteronomy 3:6

And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them. Deuteronomy 7:2

And thou shalt consume all the people which the LORD thy God shall deliver thee; thine eye shall have no pity upon them. Deuteronomy 7:16

Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword. Deuteronomy 13:15

But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth. Deuteronomy 20:16-17

And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword. Joshua 6:21

So smote all the country ... he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the LORD God of Israel commanded. Joshua 10:40

Thus saith the LORD of hosts ... go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. 1 Samuel 15:2-3

Interesting aside, Saal, the first Israelite king from first and second samuel, lost favor in gods eyes because he didn't kill enough people. Got commanded him to kill every living creature of the ammonites, and he took back the virgins and the fastest cattle as trophies of war. Not a noble deed, but probably preferable to killing literally everything. God, through samuel, denounced him that day and favored David. David would never make the mistake of not killing everyone and everything. One of his many virtues (that's sarcasm Wink ).

You may fancy yourself smarter than us silly, misguided, emphatic and belligerent atheist. Hell, maybe you are. Faith is no indication of intelligence, curiously enough. If you are going to make claims about the bible though, you can expect people to fact check you. You should know your scripture better than an atheist, I hope Thumbsup .
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03-08-2014, 11:46 AM
RE: A Series Of Questions For Atheists
(03-08-2014 07:31 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(03-08-2014 07:09 AM)Mini Gun Fodder Wrote:  Its pretty well documented.

And what is documented is a truly horrific perspective. So, there's that. Drinking Beverage

According to the perspective of man in his image, you mean?
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03-08-2014, 11:59 AM
RE: A Series Of Questions For Atheists
(03-08-2014 07:48 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(03-08-2014 12:48 AM)Mini Gun Fodder Wrote:  Even the destruction of the world via the deluge of Noah's day wouldn't constitute genocide from the creator's perspective.

Nice moral failure there, this is the ugly side of your mythology on full display.

My mythology? And again, who judges moral failure and how? Why? If a moral lesson by ancient man what have you learned from it and if truth from God the creator what practical question does it beg?

Is the science of history and archaeology selective?

The Creator, Jehovah God, preserved mankind in the face of self destruction on then the second of three times and interpreted by the atheist as genocide. Where do you see mankind heading by his own accord.
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03-08-2014, 12:23 PM
RE: A Series Of Questions For Atheists
(03-08-2014 11:03 AM)Wicked Clown Wrote:  How about the fact that God killed Children himself and is the Greatest Serial Killer the World has ever seen?

Have you been reading Steve Wells? Lets back up a bit. God created man to live forever, all man had to do was respect his sovereignty as creator. Eve was deceived and Adam, from selfish longing for his wife, refused this arrangement having been warned pain of death. Satan did the deceiving. How you figure this is God's fault in that had they all listened to him no one would ever have died?
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03-08-2014, 12:26 PM
RE: A Series Of Questions For Atheists
(03-08-2014 07:09 AM)Mini Gun Fodder Wrote:  
(03-08-2014 01:11 AM)pablo628 Wrote:  You know the so called creators perspective how exactly?

Its pretty well documented.

This is not an answer.
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