A Sting You Don't Forget: Women Share Their 1st Experience of Gender Bias
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22-05-2016, 04:22 PM
RE: A Sting You Don't Forget: Women Share Their 1st Experience of Gender Bias
Oh boy. Here we go again.

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22-05-2016, 05:11 PM
RE: A Sting You Don't Forget: Women Share Their 1st Experience of Gender Bias
(22-05-2016 04:22 PM)CosmicRaven Wrote:  Oh boy. Here we go again.




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22-05-2016, 05:17 PM
RE: A Sting You Don't Forget: Women Share Their 1st Experience of Gender Bias
(22-05-2016 04:04 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(22-05-2016 03:04 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  It can educate women into supporting and not tearing down each other.

You know I like ya, but I am here to tell you that women will always tear each other down. Just how they compete

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_int...ompetition

Don't blame me blame evolution.

Also I can understand the frustration, religion is a backwards thing.

Zeke-san, you're fighting again!
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22-05-2016, 05:32 PM
RE: A Sting You Don't Forget: Women Share Their 1st Experience of Gender Bias
I was taught in Sunday School, by an older woman, that if I had a boyfriend or husband, their judgment was always going to be better than mine, even if following that judgment was clearly disastrous. If I argued, I was wrong and going against god's plan, although being sneaky and trying to make my idea seem like it was my man's was perfectly all right. The quality of my idea was secondary to presenting it with the proper amount of self-abasement.

When I was in eighth grade, my algebra teacher, another older woman, mocked me in front of the whole class when I accidentally left an Aristotle paperback (that I was reading on my own, because I was interested in books and philosophy) in her classroom. Then she mocked me for the rest of the year. The intended message, again, was that there was something wrong with girls who wanted to learn.

I'm glad that I was and still am kind of socially oblivious (aspie) to many of the expectations and assumptions that go along with being female. I was told boys were smarter than me, but my classroom experience didn't validate it. I was told I was supposed to be into makeup and dolls and girl social politics, but I wanted to read scifi and play Beethoven. It has sometimes made it hard to keep a conversation going with a girlie girl or momzilla who wants to one-up you on clothes and child activities and recipes (I concede immediately but have gotten better at discussing these things). A great many of my closest friends since high school have been male, maybe because of this. I'm sure I've missed out on some great female friendships, too.

Most of my work has been very transparent and performance-based--you can play the part or you can't, and everybody can hear. Even in this field, there's been significant gender bias that has only changed in the last 20-30 years. It wasn't until professional orchestra auditions went completely blind and added carpet, (so the judges couldn't tell the gender of the auditioned by listening to their shoes) that women started winning lots of orchestra chairs, for example. That has not affected me personally; whenever I've lost an audition, I have lost it to somebody who plays better than I do.
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22-05-2016, 05:43 PM
RE: A Sting You Don't Forget: Women Share Their 1st Experience of Gender Bias
(22-05-2016 05:32 PM)julep Wrote:  I was taught in Sunday School, by an older woman, that if I had a boyfriend or husband, their judgment was always going to be better than mine, even if following that judgment was clearly disastrous. If I argued, I was wrong and going against god's plan, although being sneaky and trying to make my idea seem like it was my man's was perfectly all right. The quality of my idea was secondary to presenting it with the proper amount of self-abasement.

When I was in eighth grade, my algebra teacher, another older woman, mocked me in front of the whole class when I accidentally left an Aristotle paperback (that I was reading on my own, because I was interested in books and philosophy) in her classroom. Then she mocked me for the rest of the year. The intended message, again, was that there was something wrong with girls who wanted to learn.

I'm glad that I was and still am kind of socially oblivious (aspie) to many of the expectations and assumptions that go along with being female. I was told boys were smarter than me, but my classroom experience didn't validate it. I was told I was supposed to be into makeup and dolls and girl social politics, but I wanted to read scifi and play Beethoven. It has sometimes made it hard to keep a conversation going with a girlie girl or momzilla who wants to one-up you on clothes and child activities and recipes (I concede immediately but have gotten better at discussing these things). A great many of my closest friends since high school have been male, maybe because of this. I'm sure I've missed out on some great female friendships, too.

Most of my work has been very transparent and performance-based--you can play the part or you can't, and everybody can hear. Even in this field, there's been significant gender bias that has only changed in the last 20-30 years. It wasn't until professional orchestra auditions went completely blind and added carpet, (so the judges couldn't tell the gender of the auditioned by listening to their shoes) that women started winning lots of orchestra chairs, for example. That has not affected me personally; whenever I've lost an audition, I have lost it to somebody who plays better than I do.

Yes, religion has a lot to answer for on gender bias. I never thought too much about it in the orchestra music business. I guess I just figured ears were non gender biased. Good to see that is changing. Smile

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22-05-2016, 06:16 PM
RE: A Sting You Don't Forget: Women Share Their 1st Experience of Gender Bias
Then there's the gender bias that's happening in this thread right now.

You see a man can post a thread with restrictions, lets say "gun enthusiasts only" and that's respected and no one complains that there are constraints and yet a woman posts a thread about women's experiences and asks that the topic be respected and not diluted or turned into something else but no, fuck that, some just had to jump in and muck-about cause, you know, women, they don't deserve their space be respected, they're just whiny bitches. And others just post according to the topic and are supportive of women having a space to share their experiences.

And I'm getting messages right and left from some of the awesomest guys on here saying "wtf, don't they get about your opening post?" Thanks you guys, nice to see some get it and show respect. Hug

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22-05-2016, 06:17 PM
RE: A Sting You Don't Forget: Women Share Their 1st Experience of Gender Bias
Hug
I like hugs. I'll hug anyone here.

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22-05-2016, 07:34 PM
RE: A Sting You Don't Forget: Women Share Their 1st Experience of Gender Bias
(22-05-2016 06:16 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  Then there's the gender bias that's happening in this thread right now.

You see a man can post a thread with restrictions, lets say "gun enthusiasts only" and that's respected and no one complains that there are constraints and yet a woman posts a thread about women's experiences and asks that the topic be respected and not diluted or turned into something else but no, fuck that, some just had to jump in and muck-about cause, you know, women, they don't deserve their space be respected, they're just whiny bitches. And others just post according to the topic and are supportive of women having a space to share their experiences.

And I'm getting messages right and left from some of the awesomest guys on here saying "wtf, don't they get about your opening post?" Thanks you guys, nice to see some get it and show respect. Hug

If you want a thread split, just ask for it.

I know I've split the gun enthusiasts thread at least once, because the topic wasn't respected and it was requested that I split it.

KC's thread going on right now, isn't exactly being respected either. If he asked though I'd gladly split it off.

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22-05-2016, 08:02 PM
RE: A Sting You Don't Forget: Women Share Their 1st Experience of Gender Bias
(22-05-2016 07:34 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(22-05-2016 06:16 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  Then there's the gender bias that's happening in this thread right now.

You see a man can post a thread with restrictions, lets say "gun enthusiasts only" and that's respected and no one complains that there are constraints and yet a woman posts a thread about women's experiences and asks that the topic be respected and not diluted or turned into something else but no, fuck that, some just had to jump in and muck-about cause, you know, women, they don't deserve their space be respected, they're just whiny bitches. And others just post according to the topic and are supportive of women having a space to share their experiences.

And I'm getting messages right and left from some of the awesomest guys on here saying "wtf, don't they get about your opening post?" Thanks you guys, nice to see some get it and show respect. Hug

If you want a thread split, just ask for it.

I know I've split the gun enthusiasts thread at least once, because the topic wasn't respected and it was requested that I split it.

KC's thread going on right now, isn't exactly being respected either. If he asked though I'd gladly split it off.

Thumbsup

I appreciate it but I'd just as soon let it ride. Thanks. Smile

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22-05-2016, 08:27 PM
RE: A Sting You Don't Forget: Women Share Their 1st Experience of Gender Bias
Several people have mentioned bias they encountered while in middle/high school. I didn't encounter that at all. When we reached 8th grade we were split into six levels...8-1, 8-2, etc. 8-1 and maybe 8-2 would probably be considered AP classes now. The levels were based on prior grades, standardized test scores, and IQ tests. There was no difference between male and female...the difference was based on academic performance.

These levels followed along through high school. Your ability to take certain classes was based on prior standing in certain areas...it was possible to advance or drop levels depending on how you continued to progress in your classes and on tests.

The biggest difference was the taking of shop classes and home-ec classes which did seem to be split more along male/female lines though they were electives and open to anyone. When I was a sophomore they offered quarter-long classes so that we could try out other things that were usually divided. There was a shop class for the girls who were basically going in knowing nothing about shop. And there was a home-ec class for the guys that taught the basics of things like cooking and sewing. There were some other classes too but I have forgotten what they were...they were called exploratory classes.

Seeing as it was a Catholic school taught mostly by members of the clergy, it was pretty progressive and there really wasn't any favoritism placed on academics due to gender.

It wasn't until I joined the Army that I experienced any bias. I scored well enough to choose any field on my ASFAB, as long as it was an MOS open to women. I didn't really have a desire to be infantry anyway so it didn't really bother me.

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