A Textbook Example of Why Religion is Dangerous
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03-11-2013, 01:57 PM
RE: A Textbook Example of Why Religion is Dangerous
(03-11-2013 01:53 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(03-11-2013 01:44 PM)Chopdoc Wrote:  Can they (the Pearls) be held responsible for the results of their "advice?" Any lawyers out there?

No they aren't responsible perhaps in a civil suit bit criminally it's a slipperly slope. People can try to assign blame, but ultimately the blame lies on those who abused their children and not the ones simply writing about it.

No more than Ozzy Osbourne or Judas Priest be responsible for suicides.

The Pearl's claim that the Parents who kill or horribly injure their children were "going too far" and "It was not what they intended". Of course that is a pack of lies but legally they are in the clear.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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03-11-2013, 01:59 PM
RE: A Textbook Example of Why Religion is Dangerous
(03-11-2013 01:45 PM)sporehux Wrote:  I used to believe in hitting as a kid, was told i deserved it , then scaled back to slapping was ok, then only wrist spanking.
after i became a dad, i thought a tap on the wrist is ok, i was always told "spare the rod spoil the child".

My daughter got mean to the cat so i slapped her hand as normal christian morals taught this was the correct way to handle the situation.
Felt so sick at the look of betrayal on her face i nearly vomited. never hit again, so many other ways to discipline, now that they are older i can have dinner with them as a dad and not the callus asshole their grand father is to me (too bad i'm not christian, no forgiving).

Was the cat in danger? Was your daughter in danger of being harmed by cornering the cat? I don't really condone slapping children anywhere...but when my son reached for the burner on the stove after being told several times not to ever touch it, because it's hot, I slapped his hand away and later reiterated the rule.

My father would often hit me with a belt.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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03-11-2013, 02:03 PM
RE: A Textbook Example of Why Religion is Dangerous
(03-11-2013 01:57 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(03-11-2013 01:53 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  No they aren't responsible perhaps in a civil suit bit criminally it's a slipperly slope. People can try to assign blame, but ultimately the blame lies on those who abused their children and not the ones simply writing about it.

No more than Ozzy Osbourne or Judas Priest be responsible for suicides.

The Pearl's claim that the Parents who kill or horribly injure their children were "going too far" and "It was not what they intended". Of course that is a pack of lies but legally they are in the clear.

That's what I said, or intended to say.

I've read their book on child rearing and found it laughable. Someone gave it to me as a gift.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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03-11-2013, 02:17 PM
RE: A Textbook Example of Why Religion is Dangerous
(03-11-2013 01:59 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Was the cat in danger? Was your daughter in danger of being harmed by cornering the cat? I don't really condone slapping children anywhere...but when my son reached for the burner on the stove after being told several times not to ever touch it, because it's hot, I slapped his hand away and later reiterated the rule.

My father would often hit me with a belt.

nope, it was just the instinctive goto action, smack the kid .
The hot stove situation is when the smack is the lesser evil to the burn.
Although id think a rough grab would be a better option.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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03-11-2013, 02:22 PM
RE: A Textbook Example of Why Religion is Dangerous
(03-11-2013 02:17 PM)sporehux Wrote:  
(03-11-2013 01:59 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Was the cat in danger? Was your daughter in danger of being harmed by cornering the cat? I don't really condone slapping children anywhere...but when my son reached for the burner on the stove after being told several times not to ever touch it, because it's hot, I slapped his hand away and later reiterated the rule.

My father would often hit me with a belt.

nope, it was just the instinctive goto action, smack the kid .
The hot stove situation is when the smack is the lesser evil to the burn.
Although id think a rough grab would be a better option.

I would be okay with either of those options. My dad just let me touch it. Luckily I don't have any scars from it. I have to keep a very close eye on my kids around my parents.
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03-11-2013, 02:53 PM
RE: A Textbook Example of Why Religion is Dangerous
That story is terrible.

I was never anywhere close to that extreme, but I did notice that the further I drifted from Christianity the less "OK" I was with physical punishment.

Stefan Molyneux finally convinced me how bad it really was in one of his podcasts where he stressed the importance of calling things by their real names. E.g. It's not "spanking," it's "hitting." It's not "circumcision," it's "male genital mutilation." Or in this case, it's not "discipline," it's "abuse."

He also pointed out how offensive we would find it if we saw an adult treating a guy in a wheel chair the same way some parents treat their kids even though the power imbalance between a healthy adult and a disabled adult is soooo much less than between an adult and a child. Even if they're "only" yelling I'd still think they were huge assholes.

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03-11-2013, 03:17 PM
RE: A Textbook Example of Why Religion is Dangerous
I'm pretty reserved in my atheism in my day-to-day life. I'm not out there arguing against religion, or on the front lines of change. I'm happy to live my life, and concentrate on making myself happy, as well as those I care about.

But.... It's shit like this that makes me want to get out there and say something, this is the kind of stuff I want to help change. This makes me sick. To think of that child terrified every day, no one to trust or to feel safe with....

I guess you could say chainging things like this has to start small... I don't know
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03-11-2013, 03:38 PM
RE: A Textbook Example of Why Religion is Dangerous
I don't have a problem with spanking a child - provided its the palm of the hand to the butt and only for serious offenses. The stuff that the Pearls are condoning - whipping a child with a plastic rod, starving them, locking them out in the cold - goes well into the realms of child abuse. They should be sued for encouraging this sort of behavior.

Living in the South, I am constantly dealing with a violent culture that often will wail the crap out of their kids for anything - even minor offenses. I'm single and don't have any kids so maybe my opinions come without the reality of parental responsibility, but I tend to see this as just producing an even more hardened, violent culture.

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03-11-2013, 03:43 PM
RE: A Textbook Example of Why Religion is Dangerous
(03-11-2013 02:03 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(03-11-2013 01:57 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  The Pearl's claim that the Parents who kill or horribly injure their children were "going too far" and "It was not what they intended". Of course that is a pack of lies but legally they are in the clear.

That's what I said, or intended to say.

I've read their book on child rearing and found it laughable. Someone gave it to me as a gift.

Yeah, I know. It was just wishful thinking. Too bad there's no hell for people like that though.
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03-11-2013, 04:44 PM
RE: A Textbook Example of Why Religion is Dangerous
The problem with charging loonies like the Pearls for things like this is that they are only reiterating things from a book that Christians claim is infallible and is the written word of an invisible man who is responsible for giving us our morals.

I must say that I do find the way any kind of physical punishment towards children is considered abhorrent in the U.S. There is a HUGE difference between spanking a child and beating a child. Let me propose two scenarios of different parents:

Scenario A: A child gets spanked by their parent because they got caught stealing from a store. The parent has spanked the child in the past, but these instances have been few and far between. Other times the child got spanked were when they hit another kid over the head because they got angry that they lost, and swearing at his teacher in school.

Scenario B: A child is growing up in a home where they have never been spanked. However, the child is constantly told things like "You're so stupid! You're worthless! You'll never amount to anything!" The child has never had any physical punishment done to them, but hears this from their parents all the time.

Now, here's my questions:

1. Which child do you think is more likely to end up doing drugs, joining a gang, or committing suicide?
2. Which parent do you think is most likely to get Child Services called on them?
3. Which parent do you think is more likely to lose custody of their child when having Child Services called on them?

I would bet a million dollars that the child of scenario B is a million times more likely to end up doing drugs, joining a gang, or committing suicide.

I would also bet the the parents in scenario A are a thousand times more likely to get Child Services called on them and a million times more likely to lose custody of their child.

Be honest with yourself: Who are you more likely to call Child Services on when you see it in public, having no knowledge of the situation: a parent that hits their kid, or a parent who degrades their child?

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
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