A Universe From Nothing
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
11-07-2012, 03:34 PM
A Universe From Nothing
Recently Lawrence Krauss was interviewed on "The Colbert Report". It's worth a watch I think Wink

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert...nce-krauss

“What you believe to be true will control you, whether it’s true or not.”

—Jeremy LaBorde
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-07-2012, 04:24 PM
RE: A Universe From Nothing
This one is quite good too. It's a touch over an hour long, with an introduction from Richard Dawkins.
I re-watch it from time to time to understand it as best as I can.





Then when you compare Krauss's video with this one on the Higgs Boson,
you get an idea about how a field (which is essentially nothing) can be excited to produce something.
At least I hope I have that idea right.




Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-07-2012, 04:50 PM
RE: A Universe From Nothing
(11-07-2012 04:24 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  This one is quite good too. It's a touch over an hour long, with an introduction from Richard Dawkins.
I re-watch it from time to time to understand it as best as I can.


Then when you compare Krauss's video with this one on the Higgs Boson,
you get an idea about how a field (which is essentially nothing) can be excited to produce something.
At least I hope I have that idea right.
I'll watch both (although I may have already seen the first one).

After that, what should I come away with?
I'll be going in with the notion that Lawrence re-defined the term 'nothing', and that by his common rhetoric using derogatory language against religion so often that you could almost assume that he has a worldview held together by pure bias he seems to hint that this "Particle" proves the lack of necessity of God.

Other than that, I may take notes on the videos and post them here. It may be a couple days though since I work a lot and have a few activities this week every day after work.

“What you believe to be true will control you, whether it’s true or not.”

—Jeremy LaBorde
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-07-2012, 05:02 PM
RE: A Universe From Nothing
I wouldn't say Krauss redefines the word "nothing" but rather he describes it in the only way we could scientifically.

In the matter of physics, there is no absolutely non anything possible ever, that we can examine. Without any bit of evidence we could ever use to judge of something, it's difficult to say it's likely real. You can go and deal with it in theoretical fields even beyond the ideas of his nothing. It still doesn't explain how to know if, when, or how exactly a total nothing exists.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-07-2012, 05:16 PM
RE: A Universe From Nothing
(11-07-2012 05:02 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I wouldn't say Krauss redefines the word "nothing" but rather he describes it in the only way we could scientifically.

In the matter of physics, there is no absolutely non anything possible ever, that we can examine. Without any bit of evidence we could ever use to judge of something, it's difficult to say it's likely real. You can go and deal with it in theoretical fields even beyond the ideas of his nothing. It still doesn't explain how to know if, when, or how exactly a total nothing exists.
My first question is - Since Krauss "redefines" the word "nothing", then is it wrong to say it means 'not anything'?
Second - Is there only one definition of "nothing", or are we looking at more definitions?

It's interesting that Krauss states that there are "different kinds of nothing".
In order for there to be another kind of something, there has to be something there in order for there to be a different kind of it.
There are different kinds of cupcakes, there are different kinds of trees, but if you're going to say there are different kinds of nothing and say that you are not redefining said word, then you are either trying to fit something into your vocabulary, or there is a misunderstanding.

Next thing I am wondering is, if this nothing really is something (because, like you said, a literal nothing cannot be observed or imagined correctly), then this nothing/something requires explanation.

I guess we'll see in the future if Krauss or someone else can explain where... nothing came from.

“What you believe to be true will control you, whether it’s true or not.”

—Jeremy LaBorde
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-07-2012, 05:26 PM (This post was last modified: 12-07-2012 04:10 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: A Universe From Nothing
(11-07-2012 04:50 PM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  After that, what should I come away with?
I'll be going in with the notion that Lawrence re-defined the term 'nothing', and that by his common rhetoric using derogatory language against religion so often that you could almost assume that he has a worldview held together by pure bias he seems to hint that this "Particle" proves the lack of necessity of God.

The Higgs boson completes the Standard Model. It adds nothing to what already known about god(s). Krauss may "redefine" nothingness, but only points out that it is not observed in this universe. Metaphysical nothingness is a pleasant fiction, as is Spaghetti Monsterism, (Theology). Krauss' universe is not "held together" by bias, but by observation. He has pointed out, (however ineptly), that the universe is not intuitive, thus the assertions of the metaphysicians are dangerous. So your "going in" is just as biased, as what you're saying Krauss is up to. Maybe watch it first, and after ask the question what should you come away with. Gods do not exist because human brains find them necessary.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein (That's a JOKE, ya idiot)
"And you quit footing the bill for these nations that are oil rich - we're paying for some of their *squirmishes* that have been going on for centuries" - Sarah Palin
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-07-2012, 05:30 PM
RE: A Universe From Nothing
I would say that the idea of "nothing" has been slightly redefined.
If you start at 19:00 minutes into the video of "A universe from nothing" you will hear Krauss say this

"If you take empty space, get rid of everything and that nothing weighs something, then....
"Nothing is really a boiling, bubbling, brew of virtual particles that are popping in and out of existence and account for 90% of the mass in a proton, not from the quarks, but from the empty space between the quarks"

So what we thought of as nothing before turns out to contain quite a bit.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-07-2012, 05:45 PM
RE: A Universe From Nothing
I agree we have to think about nothingness in a different way.
Also since the Xtian apologists, (WLC), are so fond of using their little math tricks to prove their concepts, the equation at the beginning of the vid is useful. If gravity can have a negative number, then the total energy of the universe is "0", (zero), and mathematically there is "nothing".

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein (That's a JOKE, ya idiot)
"And you quit footing the bill for these nations that are oil rich - we're paying for some of their *squirmishes* that have been going on for centuries" - Sarah Palin
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Bucky Ball's post
11-07-2012, 05:52 PM
RE: A Universe From Nothing
(11-07-2012 05:16 PM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  
(11-07-2012 05:02 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I wouldn't say Krauss redefines the word "nothing" but rather he describes it in the only way we could scientifically.

In the matter of physics, there is no absolutely non anything possible ever, that we can examine. Without any bit of evidence we could ever use to judge of something, it's difficult to say it's likely real. You can go and deal with it in theoretical fields even beyond the ideas of his nothing. It still doesn't explain how to know if, when, or how exactly a total nothing exists.
My first question is - Since Krauss "redefines" the word "nothing", then is it wrong to say it means 'not anything'?
Second - Is there only one definition of "nothing", or are we looking at more definitions?

It's interesting that Krauss states that there are "different kinds of nothing".
In order for there to be another kind of something, there has to be something there in order for there to be a different kind of it.
There are different kinds of cupcakes, there are different kinds of trees, but if you're going to say there are different kinds of nothing and say that you are not redefining said word, then you are either trying to fit something into your vocabulary, or there is a misunderstanding.

Next thing I am wondering is, if this nothing really is something (because, like you said, a literal nothing cannot be observed or imagined correctly), then this nothing/something requires explanation.

I guess we'll see in the future if Krauss or someone else can explain where... nothing came from.
I get that point to the different use of the word. I don't classify it as a re-defining since the term nothing was never intended to describe these grand concepts. The concept of nothing comes from, a gather going out into the woods to look for berries, and she comes back empty handed saying, she found nothing. I don't think the word ever fit in astrophysics.

Where nothing came from isn't the proper question; It's based on a presumption that it had to come form somewhere. I think a more appropriate question that could be considered is: Did nothing need to be caused by something else? Or Does something cause nothingness?

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-07-2012, 10:54 PM
RE: A Universe From Nothing
Ain't nuttin' being redefined, rather a long standing inadequacy in terminology slowly being addressed.

And where does nothing come from? The Great Tao, obviously. Angel

I don't worship causality, more of an absurdist.

[Image: klingon_zps7e68578a.jpg]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes houseofcantor's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: