A Very Misanthropik Bible Study
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06-07-2014, 01:45 AM
A Very Misanthropik Bible Study
So after a lengthy (and surprisingly civil) discussion with Mom about religion yesterday, she wondered if I really am seeking truth, or if I simply want to do as I please without having to worship God. (It was more of an accusation than a pondering, but that sounded too "hostile"…) I assured her that I value intellectual honesty over all other personal virtues, and that I truly don't care what is true, just so long as it is true.

It was at this point that she issued a challenge to me. She asked "Ok, then. If that's the case, then why not try studying the Bible with one of the elders [of my former JW congregation] and see what you can learn?"

Instinctively (due to my intellectual honesty), I accepted the offer. She was pleasantly surprised, and tomorrow after the morning meeting, she's going to be looking into setting me up with one of the elders so that he can meet with me and study the Bible.

Now, I was a witness for 20 years. Rarely missed a meeting and even spoke at length from the podium. Jehovah was my everything, and the worship of him and studying of his word was truly a way of life for me. So, I'm not entirely sure what she thinks I missed. Of course, she's mentioned several times that I must've missed something, because I grew up, woke up, and got the fuck out of the cult, and her mindset (as is the mindset of many other believers) is that if I "really" knew the truth of Jehovah's word, I would never have stopped believing. Dodgy You know how that goes.

Anyway, I'm actually looking forward to it, because after many years of close, objective study, I now have more than enough counter-information to tell the guy why he's wrong. Yes, I'm going into this with the mindset that he is wrong. Not because I lack intellectual honesty, but because when a child asks you to look into the "truth of Santa Claus," you don't even bother going in thinking you might be swayed. You know Santa is horse-shit and that's that. The demonstrable truth is that the Witnesses are equally comparable to equine feces, so I already know the dude is gonna have no luck at re-converting me.

The problem, though, and the main reason that I write this, is that I must confess to a measure of unease about the whole thing. I'm looking forward to it, yes, but as many of you know, the Witnesses have traumatized me. So much so that everything I've apparently repressed over the years has come out little by little each time I encounter a witness - be they online, in person or through memory as I write my books and essays about my history with them (Coming soon to an Amazon.com near you) - and just how freaked out they make me is actually surprising to me. If it were up to me (and I realize it is), I'd never be in the same room with this particular breed of deludite again. But now I've got one in the works to meet with me personally and try actively to convince me that his shit doesn't stink.

I'm nervous. Quite frankly, I'd feel a fuck of a lot better if I knew an active atheist who could sit in the room with me as I undergo this attempted brainwashing. (AronRa or Matt Dillahunty would be fucking AWESOME) Not because I'm worried it might work, but because…well, to be truly, truly honest, the Witnesses intimidate the hell out of me. They were the law-givers of nearly the first quarter of my life. When I was young, having an elder speak to you personally about matters of faith filled one with a sense of awe. After all, he's the one Jehovah himself allowed to be placed as one of the leaders of the entire congregation. And now, as a thinking, reasoning and outspoken apostate, I'm gonna be listening to every word of what he says and thinking of sound and valid refutations on the fly. I now have to justify to an elder why I believe he's full of shit. (If not in so many words)



I've decided that from the outset, I am going to lay down a single ground rule for him. It will be very simple and very clear, and I will insist that he respect it; lest I refuse to meet with him ever again. I am going to tell him that before he tries to tell me what Jehovah wants and why Jehovah wants it and why I should be following Him, I want him to demonstrate to me - without needing to rely on ANY form of faith - that Jehovah exists at all. Only if he establishes, through tangible demonstration, that there is a thing to worship in the first place, will I be willing to listen to him explain to me why I should worship it.

So…my money says it's gonna be a short study. Wink

Will update as events unfold.

Through profound pain comes profound knowledge.
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06-07-2014, 02:58 AM
RE: A Very Misanthropik Bible Study
(06-07-2014 01:45 AM)Misanthropik Wrote:  ...
she's going to be looking into setting me up with one of the elders so that he can meet with me and study the Bible.

I've decided that from the outset, I am going to lay down a single ground rule for him... I want him to demonstrate to me - without needing to rely on ANY form of faith - that Jehovah exists at all. Only if he establishes, through tangible demonstration, that there is a thing to worship in the first place, will I be willing to listen to him explain to me why I should worship it.

So…my money says it's gonna be a short study. Wink

Will update as events unfold.

I wish you godspeed good luck.

I think you should stipulate 4 'withouts' (posted previously but a long time ago):

That he can't rely upon appeals to ...
Faith
Authority
Revelation
Tradition.

The acronym should be easy to remember... they are appeals to hot air!

It may calm your nerves to start (after the usual politenesses) by waiting until he starts lecturing and then interrupting him (with your stipulations) just has he gets up steam.

Just say (politely and firmly), "I need to stop you there" and hold your hand up. He will stop talking and it will put you in command of the conversation.

Looking forward to an update.
Popcorn

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06-07-2014, 03:34 AM
RE: A Very Misanthropik Bible Study
Kudos to you. You're facing up to your childhood conditioning and this will always be an Achilles heel. The elders know this, maybe not consciously but they must recognise that their presence alone has an effect and therefore will be trying to use this to their advantage. Even your mother subconsciously recognises this. So when you knock them off their horse it will help you overcome your conditioning and you will see them for what they are.

Remember to stay calm and don't let them manoeuvre you into the stereotype of an angry young boy. That way they can dismiss your arguments. If you are always calm, always self assured (fake it if necessary) then eventually the elder will become more stressed and will lose the authority he relies upon.

This is like an exam where you put into practise everything that you have learnt up until now. Have confidence that you will do fine because the only trick they have is try to intimidate you.
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06-07-2014, 04:28 AM
RE: A Very Misanthropik Bible Study
Sent you a PM
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06-07-2014, 08:30 AM
RE: A Very Misanthropik Bible Study
Could you record the sessions?
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06-07-2014, 10:22 AM
RE: A Very Misanthropik Bible Study
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06-07-2014, 11:29 AM
RE: A Very Misanthropik Bible Study
This sounds like a personal demon you need to face. I wish you the best of luck. I doubt very much you will please either the witness nor your mother, however. If you can summon the fortitude, it might be worth it to try a more gentle approach. Best of luck to you and let us know how it goes Thumbsup .
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06-07-2014, 01:28 PM
RE: A Very Misanthropik Bible Study
What Michael said - facing your demons can be hard but the result is usually quite rewarding for you and your peace of mind, but it will be not so good for your mom and the elder..

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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06-07-2014, 03:09 PM
RE: A Very Misanthropik Bible Study
I don't have much to add except to give supportive hugs and wish you good luck. I too share in that same sense of unease whenever I think of setting foot in a church again. Not because I think they'll change my mind, or convert me or whatever, but just because of how awful it would feel. Confused

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06-07-2014, 09:06 PM
RE: A Very Misanthropik Bible Study
Have fun. Thumbsup

Don't be too mean to the deluded twat. Drinking Beverage

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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