A belief about death
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30-09-2017, 03:41 PM
RE: A belief about death
(30-09-2017 02:59 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(30-09-2017 06:00 AM)Dworkin Wrote:  morondog,

I think you'll spot the formal problem in your post. An infinitesimal probability is a possibility. The degree of probability is not the issue, the issue is probability, which is a contingent concept.

A study of deductive and inductive arguments in formal logic is most helpful in this area of philosophy. Philosophers will tell us that deductive logic is the nearest we can get to absolute certainty and that inductive logic has the problem we are discussing now. Some have said that induction is 'The skeleton in David Hume's closet'. This is because empiricism is vulnerable to induction.

D.

PS - A caveat, and a big one. I have implied above that deductive logic may not be absolutely certain. I have spoken to some philosophers who will accept that there may come such a change in reality such that 2+2 no longer = 4. Now, that is quite a level of rational anarchy! Hobo

Nay, I deny thy formal problem. Unless you're prepared to discuss the existence of Santa Claus with equal seriousness to any given religion. Or the little invisible green mamba living in my closet who happens to have created the entire world apart from Donald Trump. He denies responsibility for that guy.

Also 2+2=4 is merely a convention and can be violated at any time. 2 raindrops added to another 2 raindrops = 1 raindrop without the universe imploding.

Double post sorry.
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30-09-2017, 03:42 PM
RE: A belief about death
(30-09-2017 02:59 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(30-09-2017 06:00 AM)Dworkin Wrote:  morondog,

I think you'll spot the formal problem in your post. An infinitesimal probability is a possibility. The degree of probability is not the issue, the issue is probability, which is a contingent concept.

A study of deductive and inductive arguments in formal logic is most helpful in this area of philosophy. Philosophers will tell us that deductive logic is the nearest we can get to absolute certainty and that inductive logic has the problem we are discussing now. Some have said that induction is 'The skeleton in David Hume's closet'. This is because empiricism is vulnerable to induction.

D.

PS - A caveat, and a big one. I have implied above that deductive logic may not be absolutely certain. I have spoken to some philosophers who will accept that there may come such a change in reality such that 2+2 no longer = 4. Now, that is quite a level of rational anarchy! Hobo

Nay, I deny thy formal problem. Unless you're prepared to discuss the existence of Santa Claus with equal seriousness to any given religion. Or the little invisible green mamba living in my closet who happens to have created the entire world apart from Donald Trump. He denies responsibility for that guy.

Also 2+2=4 is merely a convention and can be violated at any time. 2 raindrops added to another 2 raindrops = 1 raindrop without the universe imploding.

If the mamba bit Trump then he'd be a hero. Yes
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30-09-2017, 04:57 PM
RE: A belief about death
(30-09-2017 03:42 PM)adey67 Wrote:  
(30-09-2017 02:59 PM)morondog Wrote:  Nay, I deny thy formal problem. Unless you're prepared to discuss the existence of Santa Claus with equal seriousness to any given religion. Or the little invisible green mamba living in my closet who happens to have created the entire world apart from Donald Trump. He denies responsibility for that guy.

Also 2+2=4 is merely a convention and can be violated at any time. 2 raindrops added to another 2 raindrops = 1 raindrop without the universe imploding.

If the mamba bit Trump then he'd be a hero. Yes

> If a mamba bit Trump it would probably die. Consider
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30-09-2017, 06:23 PM
RE: A belief about death
(30-09-2017 02:09 AM)Dworkin Wrote:  Clockwork,

I'm not far away from you. My hope is that there is not the chains of mono theism Shocking. To me it would be like being locked in a stifling groundhog day or the pages of an eternal book. Camus' writing on the myth of Sisyphus comes to mind.

So, nothing would be fine, but I'm open to a whatever actually happens (not so much with mono theism).

D.

I'm not fine even with the various polytheistic views, either. The polytheistic myths show them to be even more twisted than the monotheistic ones. For instance, Odin would just use me as a pawn during Ragnarok. The Greeks would send people back to Earth and bring them back at will.

So, nah.
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30-09-2017, 11:01 PM
RE: A belief about death
On several occasions I've tried to have a belief in the afterlife, but it always failed. I just haven't seen any evidence to support the idea. I don't know if most of the common afterlife theories would be that fun anyways.

However, if I had to lean towards one I would love for the afterlife to be an infinite lucid dream.
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01-10-2017, 12:37 AM
RE: A belief about death
(30-09-2017 06:23 PM)Clockwork Wrote:  
(30-09-2017 02:09 AM)Dworkin Wrote:  Clockwork,

I'm not far away from you. My hope is that there is not the chains of mono theism Shocking. To me it would be like being locked in a stifling groundhog day or the pages of an eternal book. Camus' writing on the myth of Sisyphus comes to mind.

So, nothing would be fine, but I'm open to a whatever actually happens (not so much with mono theism).

D.

I'm not fine even with the various polytheistic views, either. The polytheistic myths show them to be even more twisted than the monotheistic ones. For instance, Odin would just use me as a pawn during Ragnarok. The Greeks would send people back to Earth and bring them back at will.

So, nah.

I wouldn't call Odin more twisted when it is YHWH that committed genocide. Norse gods weren't sunshine and rainbow but that's far cry from biblical god tyranny.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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01-10-2017, 02:51 AM
RE: A belief about death
(30-09-2017 02:59 PM)morondog Wrote:  Nay, I deny thy formal problem.

morondog,

I like your use of archaic language. A nice touch of humour in this otherwise dry topic. Thumbsup

D.
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01-10-2017, 03:03 AM
RE: A belief about death
(30-09-2017 06:23 PM)Clockwork Wrote:  So, nah.

Clockwork,

I don't mean to sound harsh, but "nah" won't change reality. I believe that we all have to accept what comes, whatever it is.

We can have preferences though. Smile As Albert Camus wisely commented on life and death - we don't have to like it.

D.
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01-10-2017, 03:08 AM
RE: A belief about death
(29-09-2017 02:39 AM)Dworkin Wrote:  Folks,

Do you have a belief about death?

After decades of reading philosophy and theology books I’ve had a stab at clearing my mind on the subject. This is it:

‘There are no words, written or spoken, that can enlighten us to the passage from this world’.

I can’t justify this belief, but it is genuinely what I believe on the subject.

What’s yours?

D


I actually do have a pretty fair idea of what death looks like, at least from the outside. I infer from that that my personal death will end my experience just as it seems to for every road killed animal I've ever seen. Not one of them has ever shown the least interest or concern for anything. Thus I assume it will be the same for me.

BTW, I don't expect the passage to last very long, leastwise no longer than the passage into unconsciousness takes in the hands of a competent anesthesiologist.

“Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why?'
Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
Man got to tell himself he understand.”

― Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle
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01-10-2017, 03:13 AM
RE: A belief about death
(30-09-2017 11:01 PM)goldenarm Wrote:  On several occasions I've tried to have a belief in the afterlife, but it always failed. I just haven't seen any evidence to support the idea. I don't know if most of the common afterlife theories would be that fun anyways.

However, if I had to lean towards one I would love for the afterlife to be an infinite lucid dream.

goldenarm,

Yes, I have felt the same. To me, it is not just about evidence, but about imagination. It is difficult indeed to imagine what is beyond our perceptions and understanding. Even the idea of a dream is born of empirical data, as all our experiential concepts are.

I think this is what inspires me about possibility, as it hints but does not denote. Smile

D.
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