A blog idea. Does God suffer?
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14-06-2011, 11:48 AM
A blog idea. Does God suffer?
I write a small blog to put out my thoughts. I know a rarely get visitors. I just use it to help my writing skills.

I am Buddhist and my Buddhism gave me an idea. Does God suffer? Exploring the Abrahamic god through the four noble truths.

I just need to find some evidence of god's suffering. I could use some help finding passages.

The four noble truths:

Quote:1. Life means suffering.

To live means to suffer, because the human nature is not perfect and neither is the world we live in. During our lifetime, we inevitably have to endure physical suffering such as pain, sickness, injury, tiredness, old age, and eventually death; and we have to endure psychological suffering like sadness, fear, frustration, disappointment, and depression. Although there are different degrees of suffering and there are also positive experiences in life that we perceive as the opposite of suffering, such as ease, comfort and happiness, life in its totality is imperfect and incomplete, because our world is subject to impermanence. This means we are never able to keep permanently what we strive for, and just as happy moments pass by, we ourselves and our loved ones will pass away one day, too.

2. The origin of suffering is attachment.

The origin of suffering is attachment to transient things and the ignorance thereof. Transient things do not only include the physical objects that surround us, but also ideas, and -in a greater sense- all objects of our perception. Ignorance is the lack of understanding of how our mind is attached to impermanent things. The reasons for suffering are desire, passion, ardour, pursuit of wealth and prestige, striving for fame and popularity, or in short: craving and clinging. Because the objects of our attachment are transient, their loss is inevitable, thus suffering will necessarily follow. Objects of attachment also include the idea of a "self" which is a delusion, because there is no abiding self. What we call "self" is just an imagined entity, and we are merely a part of the ceaseless becoming of the universe.

3. The cessation of suffering is attainable.

The cessation of suffering can be attained through nirodha. Nirodha means the unmaking of sensual craving and conceptual attachment. The third noble truth expresses the idea that suffering can be ended by attaining dispassion. Nirodha extinguishes all forms of clinging and attachment. This means that suffering can be overcome through human activity, simply by removing the cause of suffering. Attaining and perfecting dispassion is a process of many levels that ultimately results in the state of Nirvana. Nirvana means freedom from all worries, troubles, complexes, fabrications and ideas. Nirvana is not comprehensible for those who have not attained it.

4. The path to the cessation of suffering.

There is a path to the end of suffering - a gradual path of self-improvement, which is described more detailed in the Eightfold Path. It is the middle way between the two extremes of excessive self-indulgence (hedonism) and excessive self-mortification (asceticism); and it leads to the end of the cycle of rebirth. The latter quality discerns it from other paths which are merely "wandering on the wheel of becoming", because these do not have a final object. The path to the end of suffering can extend over many lifetimes, throughout which every individual rebirth is subject to karmic conditioning. Craving, ignorance, delusions, and its effects will disappear gradually, as progress is made on the path.

http://www.thebigview.com/buddhism/fourtruths.html

[Image: buddhasig.png]
“Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.” ~ Gautama Buddha
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16-06-2011, 04:02 AM
RE: A blog idea. Does God suffer?
Christians believe the God of Abraham revealed himself in a unique way by being born as a man, Jesus Christ. This joining of a man and God in one person is regarded as a great mystery. Jesus is the fulfilment of many Hebrew prophecies, including the following from Isaiah chapter 53:
Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his stripes we are healed.

In the Christian scriptures, the death of Jesus (he was executed by the Roman officials in Jerusalem) is discussed at length. Jesus spoke of his own death after his resurrection in Luke Chapter 24:
And he said to them, “O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into his glory?” And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the [Hebrew] Scriptures the things concerning himself.

The book of Hebrews says in Chapter 2:
But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone. For it was fitting that he, for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make the founder of their salvation perfect through suffering.

The book of Peter, Chapter 1 says:
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit,

The meaning of this suffering is that Jesus (both God and man) suffered once for our offenses against God as a substitute for us so that those who trust him as God do not have to suffer for their offenses.

If you want more I can provide some links.

He was part of my dream, of course--but then I was part of his dream, too!
--Alice
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16-06-2011, 09:11 PM
RE: A blog idea. Does God suffer?
Thanks for the start. Im currently house sitting, so i would have to write them down on paper for notes. No computer acess. Just my phone.

[Image: buddhasig.png]
“Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.” ~ Gautama Buddha
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21-06-2011, 10:22 AM
RE: A blog idea. Does God suffer?
Many years ago, i read a horrible short story about Hell, wherein all the torture victims, all the torturers, the judges, onlookers and mourners were the same image: Christ, all sobbing their hearts out. The ultimate vicious circle. If you can picture it, enough to put you off the whole premise of christianity - which, i think was the opposite of its intention. I think it was meant to show how God suffers endlessly for the sins we keep committing.
I can't recall the title or author, and i have no idea how you can use this bit of lore, but it's stuck in my mind like a raspberry seed.

If you pray to anything, you're prey to anything.
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28-06-2011, 07:18 AM
 
RE: A blog idea. Does God suffer?
(14-06-2011 11:48 AM)The Doctor Wrote:  I write a small blog to put out my thoughts. I know a rarely get visitors. I just use it to help my writing skills.

I am Buddhist and my Buddhism gave me an idea. Does God suffer? Exploring the Abrahamic god through the four noble truths.

I just need to find some evidence of god's suffering. I could use some help finding passages.

The four noble truths:

Quote:1. Life means suffering.

To live means to suffer, because the human nature is not perfect and neither is the world we live in. During our lifetime, we inevitably have to endure physical suffering such as pain, sickness, injury, tiredness, old age, and eventually death; and we have to endure psychological suffering like sadness, fear, frustration, disappointment, and depression. Although there are different degrees of suffering and there are also positive experiences in life that we perceive as the opposite of suffering, such as ease, comfort and happiness, life in its totality is imperfect and incomplete, because our world is subject to impermanence. This means we are never able to keep permanently what we strive for, and just as happy moments pass by, we ourselves and our loved ones will pass away one day, too.

2. The origin of suffering is attachment.

The origin of suffering is attachment to transient things and the ignorance thereof. Transient things do not only include the physical objects that surround us, but also ideas, and -in a greater sense- all objects of our perception. Ignorance is the lack of understanding of how our mind is attached to impermanent things. The reasons for suffering are desire, passion, ardour, pursuit of wealth and prestige, striving for fame and popularity, or in short: craving and clinging. Because the objects of our attachment are transient, their loss is inevitable, thus suffering will necessarily follow. Objects of attachment also include the idea of a "self" which is a delusion, because there is no abiding self. What we call "self" is just an imagined entity, and we are merely a part of the ceaseless becoming of the universe.

3. The cessation of suffering is attainable.

The cessation of suffering can be attained through nirodha. Nirodha means the unmaking of sensual craving and conceptual attachment. The third noble truth expresses the idea that suffering can be ended by attaining dispassion. Nirodha extinguishes all forms of clinging and attachment. This means that suffering can be overcome through human activity, simply by removing the cause of suffering. Attaining and perfecting dispassion is a process of many levels that ultimately results in the state of Nirvana. Nirvana means freedom from all worries, troubles, complexes, fabrications and ideas. Nirvana is not comprehensible for those who have not attained it.

4. The path to the cessation of suffering.

There is a path to the end of suffering - a gradual path of self-improvement, which is described more detailed in the Eightfold Path. It is the middle way between the two extremes of excessive self-indulgence (hedonism) and excessive self-mortification (asceticism); and it leads to the end of the cycle of rebirth. The latter quality discerns it from other paths which are merely "wandering on the wheel of becoming", because these do not have a final object. The path to the end of suffering can extend over many lifetimes, throughout which every individual rebirth is subject to karmic conditioning. Craving, ignorance, delusions, and its effects will disappear gradually, as progress is made on the path.

http://www.thebigview.com/buddhism/fourtruths.html

Your question assumes there is a god. So far no evidence has been discovered that proves there is a god.

I would recommend a starter course in evolution.
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28-06-2011, 11:00 PM
RE: A blog idea. Does God suffer?
(28-06-2011 07:18 AM)twinbeech Wrote:  Your question assumes there is a god. So far no evidence has been discovered that proves there is a god.

I would recommend a starter course in evolution. [/size][/font]

So?? Does it really matter?

[Image: buddhasig.png]
“Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.” ~ Gautama Buddha
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29-06-2011, 04:04 PM
 
RE: A blog idea. Does God suffer?
(28-06-2011 07:18 AM)twinbeech Wrote:  Your question assumes there is a god. So far no evidence has been discovered that proves there is a god.

I would recommend a starter course in evolution.

The subject of the blog post seemed hypothetical to me. It's not about whether there is or isn't a God, it's whether or not the God of Jewish and Christian mythology suffers. That's a pretty pointless objection.
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01-07-2011, 07:36 PM
RE: A blog idea. Does God suffer?
Jesus was an incarnation of the Buddha.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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05-07-2011, 12:45 PM
RE: A blog idea. Does God suffer?
(01-07-2011 07:36 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Jesus was an incarnation of the Buddha.

And my pizza courier!

..."we can be truly free - not because we can rebel against the the tyranny of the selfish replicators but because we know that there is no one to rebel."
Susan Blackmore : The Meme Machine
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06-07-2011, 07:12 PM
RE: A blog idea. Does God suffer?
(05-07-2011 12:45 PM)TheSelfishGene Wrote:  
(01-07-2011 07:36 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Jesus was an incarnation of the Buddha.

And my pizza courier!

Yes, now you're getting it!

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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