A breakthrough or another Christian lie of convenience?
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03-01-2014, 10:05 AM
A breakthrough or another Christian lie of convenience?
Well, my debate with a theist has come to an end, and predictably it ended because the exchanges became too frustrating. If the debate were with a perfect stranger I believe we would still be debating, but because it was with a family member, I feared the relationship might deteriorate and hurt the family.

So, what did we accomplish? For me, I was able to get a lot off of my chest. For far too long I had to hear about the miracles and perfection of god and I had to keep my mouth shut. So to finally show someone in my family that their way isn't the only way, and that their way was far from perfect, was a lot of fun. Plus I was able to show just how well-prepared I was for this.

I was surprised to find my opponent was as indoctrinated as the stereotypes indicate. While I knew she was judgmental and arrogant when it came to religion, I never thought she would slip into creationist mode. One interesting story: Somehow we got on evolution, I believe it was when she started trashing science as a biased industry, and she told me I believe in evolution but she believes in Intelligent Design. She proceeded to pepper me with the ignorant questions about why there are still apes and I nearly fell over in my chair. That's when I became indignant and said if she can't even understand evolution, or at the very least do some research on it before firing off such ignorant tripe, then how can we go on? I had to show her in black and white that even her own CCC and pope endorse evolution as fact.

Here's the fun part: The very next email she says she believes in evolution. So, which is it? That she was lying before just to get a rise out of me, or does she so blindly follow her CCC that when I pointed it out to her that the CCC believes in evolution that she was forced to believe in it? Can you imagine what it's like to have absolutely zero backbone when it comes to your beliefs? To not be able to think at all for yourself and to be forced to change your beliefs on a dime?

So maybe I had a hand in making her believe in evolution, who knows? I will miss the debates if only because I got to take a righteous person down a peg and make her think about my side for a change.

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03-01-2014, 01:59 PM
RE: A breakthrough or another Christian lie of convenience?
(03-01-2014 10:05 AM)WillHopp Wrote:  Here's the fun part: The very next email she says she believes in evolution. So, which is it? That she was lying before just to get a rise out of me, or does she so blindly follow her CCC that when I pointed it out to her that the CCC believes in evolution that she was forced to believe in it? Can you imagine what it's like to have absolutely zero backbone when it comes to your beliefs? To not be able to think at all for yourself and to be forced to change your beliefs on a dime?

So maybe I had a hand in making her believe in evolution, who knows? I will miss the debates if only because I got to take a righteous person down a peg and make her think about my side for a change.

She probably believes in "micro-evolution" but not "macro-evolution". They aren't actually two separate things, but semi-scientific-minded creationists will create this schism to have their cake and eat it too. Micro-evolution is the evolution that we can see and observe within our life times (particularly in populations of rapidly-breeding things like bugs or bacteria). Macro-evolution is the part where one species stops being one and starts being another.

They typically strawman this into weird shit like "dogs becoming cats" or something, and then go on to claim that there's no evidence that it ever happened. They will say there are no transitional forms, and that macro-evolution is just a theory. If you find an example of a transitional form for them, they will declare it to be a "final form" ad hoc and reject your refutation.

Assuming that's the case, walk away from this one. It will only end in tears.
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03-01-2014, 03:24 PM (This post was last modified: 03-01-2014 03:33 PM by Bows and Arrows.)
RE: A breakthrough or another Christian lie of convenience?
(03-01-2014 10:05 AM)WillHopp Wrote:  Here's the fun part: The very next email she says she believes in evolution. So, which is it? That she was lying before just to get a rise out of me, or does she so blindly follow her CCC that when I pointed it out to her that the CCC believes in evolution that she was forced to believe in it? Can you imagine what it's like to have absolutely zero backbone when it comes to your beliefs? To not be able to think at all for yourself and to be forced to change your beliefs on a dime?

This is the part that fascinates me. I'm not so much into the details of debating the different ideas of religion, as I am in learning how people can flip flop like that.

Recently there was a member from SD here, Jayne. And when the SD forum snapped their fingers and said don't go to TTA- she left in a hurry.

I am baffled how religion controls people.


"Life is a daring adventure or it is nothing"--Helen Keller
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03-01-2014, 03:39 PM
RE: A breakthrough or another Christian lie of convenience?
Yep it's scary.

Robby, I think she does mean macro, though, given that I pointed out her own religion tells her to believe it. If not, I don't care, just scares me that if she can think that way, what other shit is she waffling on in my family's life?

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04-01-2014, 01:11 AM
RE: A breakthrough or another Christian lie of convenience?
(03-01-2014 10:05 AM)WillHopp Wrote:  Well, my debate with a theist has come to an end, and predictably it ended because the exchanges became too frustrating. If the debate were with a perfect stranger I believe we would still be debating, but because it was with a family member, I feared the relationship might deteriorate and hurt the family.

So, what did we accomplish? For me, I was able to get a lot off of my chest. For far too long I had to hear about the miracles and perfection of god and I had to keep my mouth shut. So to finally show someone in my family that their way isn't the only way, and that their way was far from perfect, was a lot of fun. Plus I was able to show just how well-prepared I was for this.

I was surprised to find my opponent was as indoctrinated as the stereotypes indicate. While I knew she was judgmental and arrogant when it came to religion, I never thought she would slip into creationist mode. One interesting story: Somehow we got on evolution, I believe it was when she started trashing science as a biased industry, and she told me I believe in evolution but she believes in Intelligent Design. She proceeded to pepper me with the ignorant questions about why there are still apes and I nearly fell over in my chair. That's when I became indignant and said if she can't even understand evolution, or at the very least do some research on it before firing off such ignorant tripe, then how can we go on? I had to show her in black and white that even her own CCC and pope endorse evolution as fact.

Here's the fun part: The very next email she says she believes in evolution. So, which is it? That she was lying before just to get a rise out of me, or does she so blindly follow her CCC that when I pointed it out to her that the CCC believes in evolution that she was forced to believe in it? Can you imagine what it's like to have absolutely zero backbone when it comes to your beliefs? To not be able to think at all for yourself and to be forced to change your beliefs on a dime?

So maybe I had a hand in making her believe in evolution, who knows? I will miss the debates if only because I got to take a righteous person down a peg and make her think about my side for a change.

Seems to me the CCC say jump, she asks how high.

8000 years before Jesus, the Egyptian god Horus said, "I am the way, the truth, the life."
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04-01-2014, 01:42 AM
RE: A breakthrough or another Christian lie of convenience?
(03-01-2014 03:24 PM)Bows and Arrows Wrote:  ...
I am baffled how religion controls people.

It taps into our genetic predisposition for risk avoidance.

Confused

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06-01-2014, 08:40 PM
RE: A breakthrough or another Christian lie of convenience?
(03-01-2014 10:05 AM)WillHopp Wrote:  I am baffled how religion controls people.

Religion's control is frightening, but it makes for an obvious opponent. At least the blatant ignorance against something as simple as stem cells or vaccination let's us know the direct enemy.
I do realize that being against vaccines is more conspiratorial than religious but most of the religious people I know love a good conspiracy too. In my experience, religion has a control over people who are just fundamentally scared of things that they don't understand.

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07-01-2014, 12:53 AM
RE: A breakthrough or another Christian lie of convenience?
(06-01-2014 08:40 PM)Cobalt Wrote:  In my experience, religion has a control over people who are just fundamentally scared of things that they don't understand.

And organized religion has a whole support structure in place to fuel those fears and profit from them Dodgy

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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13-01-2014, 02:24 PM
RE: A breakthrough or another Christian lie of convenience?
Its frightening how blindly people follow others.

There isn't much more stupid than a human claiming infallibility... It has led to some of the worst crimes in human history.

The stars are matter, we are matter... but it doesn't matter. - Captain Beefheart
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20-01-2014, 03:50 AM
RE: A breakthrough or another Christian lie of convenience?
People who ask you to stop thinking are never your friends.

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