A breakthrough or another Christian lie of convenience?
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20-01-2014, 05:15 AM
RE: A breakthrough or another Christian lie of convenience?
When I was xtian, I believed that evolution was real but controlled by God. So yeah....
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20-01-2014, 12:48 PM
RE: A breakthrough or another Christian lie of convenience?
I recently wrote a brief post on my blog about that, jaxx, laughing at that way of thinking, too.

When Christians finally admit evolution is fact and then twist/edit it, as they always do, to say gawd planned it that way and is controlling evolution, I can't help but ask, "So your gawd started life billions of years ago as a single-celled organism, knowing it would take that long to evolve into "his image?"

He created the universe almost 14BYA but waited 10B years to make his children's planet, and then waited 4B years to have those children become Homo sapiens? Tell me more about how your gawd is infallible and his plan can't be understood by us puny humans. Smile

Check out my atheism blog. It's just a blog, no ads, no revenue, no gods.
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Atheism promotes critical thinking; theism promotes hypocritical thinking. -- Me
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21-01-2014, 07:13 AM
RE: A breakthrough or another Christian lie of convenience?
What does an infinite god care for finite waste? Surely a billion years here or there makes no difference to him?

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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28-01-2014, 04:29 AM (This post was last modified: 28-01-2014 04:37 AM by Phil Hill.)
Re: RE: A breakthrough or another Christian lie of convenience?
(21-01-2014 07:13 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  What does an infinite god care for finite waste? Surely a billion years here or there makes no difference to him?

You do realize that you're using the human concept of time on a non-human? Anyway, if time is applicable to god (the deist god) it did have a beginning and will have an end. If that god is outside time, then it created nothing since creation takes place in time (temporal).

EDIT: Before some dishonest theist quote mines this post I figured I best add this. The reason I mentioned the deist god and not the biblical God is because according to the laws of logic, the bible God can't exist.

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28-01-2014, 05:01 AM
RE: A breakthrough or another Christian lie of convenience?
What's to say that the deist god doesn't have some other time-like dimension to work in?

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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28-01-2014, 05:10 AM
Re: RE: A breakthrough or another Christian lie of convenience?
(28-01-2014 05:01 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  What's to say that the deist god doesn't have some other time-like dimension to work in?

Does science show evidence of that? If not, then it is neither reasonable not logical to believe it. IOW, you can believe it if you want but it's a belief based in faith.

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28-01-2014, 05:43 AM
RE: A breakthrough or another Christian lie of convenience?
I'm not offering any, but you argued that a deistic god must not have created anything because the god does not experience time. I agree with your conclusion but the argument was fallacious. My thinking is that bad arguments should be challenged whether I agree with their conclusions or not.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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28-01-2014, 05:49 AM
RE: A breakthrough or another Christian lie of convenience?
It would be a bad argument of you could provide evidence showing otherwise but you refuse. Disagreement with an argument doesn't make it wrong.

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28-01-2014, 06:11 AM
RE: A breakthrough or another Christian lie of convenience?
Your argument was:
1. In order to create there must be a temporal context for the creation activity
2. A deistic god is outside of time
3. Therefore a deistic god is incapable of creation
I responded that the conclusion does not follow from the two premises, I justified this rejection by arguing that a deistic god could be operating in some temporal context outside of our own temporal dimension.
You rebutted that there is no evidence that a deistic god exists in a temporal context outside of our own time dimension, but your rebuttal has no bearing on the formal validity or invalidity of your argument. In fact there is no evidence that a deistic god exists full stop, and your argument is framed as an argument against the existence of a deistic god. By adding your rebuttal you place the conclusion as a new premise to your argument thereby making your argument circular.

A better argument would be:
1. There is no compelling evidence for a deistic god, nor in fact for any context outside of our universe.
2. Heuristically we can conclude in the absence of evidence that there is no justification for belief and therefore no imperative for belief.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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28-01-2014, 06:17 AM (This post was last modified: 28-01-2014 06:48 AM by Phil Hill.)
RE: A breakthrough or another Christian lie of convenience?
I think you didn't read what I wrote or if you did you only understood half of it. I never made the claim that the deist god outside time. In any event, just show the scientific evidence that there is another time-like dimension or this conversation is no more than a waste of time since I will not debate hypothetical idiocy.

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