A causality thought experiment
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15-05-2011, 07:46 PM
RE: A causality thought experiment
(12-05-2011 10:40 PM)The_observer Wrote:  Big bang... Universe expands...
Expansion slows down...
universe collapse...
big crunch...
big bang...
etc...etc...

Besides... their argument for the existence of a God is called "special pleading"
Everything had a cause except God (my god to be specific). Those people just cant wrap their head around terms like "infinite and endless" en so on; they mix it up with "really large" or "very big"

There is only one way this cycle could work, and that is the reversal of time, without that then the universe simply does not have the gravity (remember gravity is a weak force in the universe) to collapse back in on itself.
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16-05-2011, 07:07 AM
RE: A causality thought experiment
(15-05-2011 07:46 PM)TheKetola Wrote:  There is only one way this cycle could work, and that is the reversal of time, without that then the universe simply does not have the gravity (remember gravity is a weak force in the universe) to collapse back in on itself.
True statement. But what DO we know about time actually. We do know that it is the only perspective we have... And that's about it...

Observer

Agnostic atheist
Secular humanist
Emotional rationalist
Disclaimer: Don’t mix the personal opinion above with the absolute and objective truth. Remember to think for yourself. Thank you.
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16-05-2011, 08:39 AM
 
RE: A causality thought experiment
(15-05-2011 07:46 PM)TheKetola Wrote:  
(12-05-2011 10:40 PM)The_observer Wrote:  Big bang... Universe expands...
Expansion slows down...
universe collapse...
big crunch...
big bang...
etc...etc...

Besides... their argument for the existence of a God is called "special pleading"
Everything had a cause except God (my god to be specific). Those people just cant wrap their head around terms like "infinite and endless" en so on; they mix it up with "really large" or "very big"

There is only one way this cycle could work, and that is the reversal of time, without that then the universe simply does not have the gravity (remember gravity is a weak force in the universe) to collapse back in on itself.

This seems to be the case indeed, as the expansion rate of the universe is currently accelerating. The oscillating universe theory was an idea einstein had back in the 30's (i think?) when we didn't know this fact. Then again, we don't understand the force that drives this expansion, often refered to as dark energy, vacuum energy or simply the cosmological constant.

A prominent theory in cosmology today is the inflation theory, which states that at one point in the very early universe this expansion rate was an extreme order of magnitude higher (for a very short period of time). Who's to say this rate of expansion won't change or dissapear at some point? We have no reason to believe it will, but it might, we just don't understand it. Undecided

Anyway it's just one example of an alternative to the theist assertments of what is impossible.
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16-05-2011, 02:47 PM
RE: A causality thought experiment
quote from this page provide by GassyKitten in this post
Quote:8. The universe is its own creator

One of the most talked-about assertions in the whole book is that we don't need the idea of God to explain what sparked the creation of the universe.

"It is not necessary to invoke God to light the blue touch paper and set the universe going," Hawking and Mlodinow write.

Instead, the laws of science alone can explain why the universe began. Our modern understanding of time suggests that it is just another dimension, like space. Thus it doesn't have a beginning.

"Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing," they write. "Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist."

Time is incredible. I think this is where "the great mystery" lies...

Observer

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Secular humanist
Emotional rationalist
Disclaimer: Don’t mix the personal opinion above with the absolute and objective truth. Remember to think for yourself. Thank you.
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23-05-2011, 12:52 PM
RE: A causality thought experiment
(12-05-2011 07:05 PM)cfhmagnet Wrote:  So I have a thought. I don't think it's impossible for there to be an unending chain, it's just a nausea-inducing thought. My thought experiment is, can you imagine an unending chain of causes to our universe? Why or why not?

No. Truly infinite chains cannot exist within a universe which has the dimension of time.

Fortunately, we can still get around the need for a first cause, as causality only applies in systems wherein time exists. "Before" the universe, no causality existed, and the universe therefore not only doesn't require but cannot have had a cause.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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