A challenge for creationists.
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29-09-2011, 06:37 AM
A challenge for creationists.
You believe a supreme being created man in his image? That this being is infinitely wise, an intelligent designer, and cares about his creations?

If so, then please explain defecation.

Don't say "we have to do it to expel waste" or any other apologies for the act, explain why an intelligent designer, supreme wise, would chose a system that results in so much waste, largely toxic and almost always a problem when produced, a system that is used by humans, all mammals, and most other living things on the planet.

I've been asking this question for four years and I've not gotten a good answer yet. So, whatcha got?
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29-09-2011, 08:35 AM
RE: A challenge for creationists.
(29-09-2011 06:37 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  You believe a supreme being created man in his image? That this being is infinitely wise, an intelligent designer, and cares about his creations?

Hello Gawdzilla, and yes, I believe all of the above.


(29-09-2011 06:37 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  If so, then please explain defecation.

Not sure why how God created man is such an important issue. That this aspect of man's existence would lead one to doubt man's creation by God.

I would just say that man exists on a physical plane as opposed to the spiritual realm which describes God's eternal existance. Man's creation was not in God's realm, but outside of it. Similar to those who own goldfish: they do not go to the store, buy a goldfish, then stick it in their pocket and carry it around with them (though my nephew did exactly that when he was about five, and upon being told that he could not take the fish from it's bowl, and that the fish was dead, he insisted it was alive...because it's eyes were open).

For the goldfish to survive, it must have an environment suitable for it's continued existance. So it is with man. Man was created for existence in the physical realm, and the physical realm was created as the environment for man to live in. His creation is separate from the creation of angels, who scripture speaks of being able to exist and survive in this realm, as well as being able to exist in the spiritual realm.

We are given account of angels eating in this realm, though no account of bodily functions such as you suggest. When man dies, and enters the spiritual realm, we are told that he will be "like the angels," but the significance difference is that he will enter into a realm that is quite outside of the physical one we now dwell in.

If man could design a transport that could traverse the universe, and even if he could somehow find eternal longevity so that he could survive, he would never be able to either find or enter that realm which is spiritual, where God exists outside of time and physicality.

So you see I see no reason that defecation needs "to be explained," because we are dealing with man as he was created, not man as we think would be a "better creation."




(29-09-2011 06:37 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  Don't say "we have to do it to expel waste" or any other apologies for the act, explain why an intelligent designer, supreme wise, would chose a system that results in so much waste, largely toxic and almost always a problem when produced, a system that is used by humans, all mammals, and most other living things on the planet.

I hold to the theory that the earth and the things within it are winding down, increasingly becoming less than what they were at one time.

Nutrients in foods, for example: I believe that when the earth was created, nutrition in food was more than what it is today.

If that is true, as well as the belief that man had longer life due to this, how would that apply to human waste? Perhaps a scientific study of waste products contrasting the waste of those that eat raw vegetables as opposed to those who "cook out the nutrition" found in foods, and perhaps a third group who primarily eats processed foods and junk food might give an indication of the toxicity difference between them.

Interesting thought, though.

(29-09-2011 06:37 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  I've been asking this question for four years and I've not gotten a good answer yet. So, whatcha got?

Admittedly, not much. Of course, it is a strange question.

S.T.
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29-09-2011, 10:34 AM
RE: A challenge for creationists.
(29-09-2011 06:37 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  explain why an intelligent designer, supreme wise, would chose a system that results in so much waste, largely toxic and almost always a problem when produced, a system that is used by humans, all mammals, and most other living things on the planet.

It does have a useful function because it can be used as fertilizer to help plants grow. The unpleasant aspects might not have existed in the original creation but could be one of the effects of sin. You are overlooking the fact that the world is no longer in the same condition in which God created it.

God's invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made.
Romans 1:20 ESV

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29-09-2011, 10:38 AM
 
RE: A challenge for creationists.
(29-09-2011 10:34 AM)theophilus Wrote:  The unpleasant aspects might not have existed in the original creation but could be one of the effects of sin.

You mean to say, Theo, that: "you sin, therefore you stink?"

Big Grin
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29-09-2011, 10:47 AM
RE: A challenge for creationists.
(29-09-2011 10:38 AM)Zatamon Wrote:  
(29-09-2011 10:34 AM)theophilus Wrote:  The unpleasant aspects might not have existed in the original creation but could be one of the effects of sin.

You mean to say, Theo, that: "you sin, therefore you stink?"

Big Grin

That is certainly a possibility.

God's invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made.
Romans 1:20 ESV

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29-09-2011, 10:48 AM
RE: A challenge for creationists.
(29-09-2011 10:34 AM)theophilus Wrote:  
(29-09-2011 06:37 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  explain why an intelligent designer, supreme wise, would chose a system that results in so much waste, largely toxic and almost always a problem when produced, a system that is used by humans, all mammals, and most other living things on the planet.

It does have a useful function because it can be used as fertilizer to help plants grow. The unpleasant aspects might not have existed in the original creation but could be one of the effects of sin. You are overlooking the fact that the world is no longer in the same condition in which God created it.

You're doing the "benefits" thing.
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29-09-2011, 11:35 AM
 
RE: A challenge for creationists.
(29-09-2011 10:47 AM)theophilus Wrote:  
(29-09-2011 10:38 AM)Zatamon Wrote:  
(29-09-2011 10:34 AM)theophilus Wrote:  The unpleasant aspects might not have existed in the original creation but could be one of the effects of sin.

You mean to say, Theo, that: "you sin, therefore you stink?"

Big Grin

That is certainly a possibility.

Why don't you ask god? It must have said something about it! It only knows it talks a lot!

I am sure somewhere in the bible something is said about shit!

Big Grin
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29-09-2011, 04:14 PM
RE: A challenge for creationists.
(29-09-2011 11:35 AM)Zatamon Wrote:  I am sure somewhere in the bible something is said about shit!

Yes indeed.

Ezekiel 4:12-13

12 And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man, in their sight.
13 And the LORD said, Even thus shall the children of Israel eat their defiled bread among the Gentiles, whither I will drive them. [KJV]


2 Kings 18:27

27 But Rabshakeh said unto them, Hath my master sent me to thy master, and to thee, to speak these words? hath he not sent me to the men which sit on the wall, that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you? [KJV]

(From The Joy of Biblical Cooking)

Religious disputes are like arguments in a madhouse over which inmate really is Napoleon.
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29-09-2011, 04:14 PM
RE: A challenge for creationists.
(29-09-2011 11:35 AM)Zatamon Wrote:  
(29-09-2011 10:47 AM)theophilus Wrote:  
(29-09-2011 10:38 AM)Zatamon Wrote:  
(29-09-2011 10:34 AM)theophilus Wrote:  The unpleasant aspects might not have existed in the original creation but could be one of the effects of sin.

You mean to say, Theo, that: "you sin, therefore you stink?"

Big Grin

That is certainly a possibility.

Why don't you ask god? It must have said something about it! It only knows it talks a lot!

I am sure somewhere in the bible something is said about shit!

Big Grin

Since you are interested, start here.

If you look at the keys (numbers beside the words) you can further your search by looking at other words that represent your current curiosity.

Such as this.

Or this.

Or this.

That is just for starters, but should get you going.

S.T.
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29-09-2011, 04:17 PM
 
RE: A challenge for creationists.
(29-09-2011 04:14 PM)S.T. Ranger Wrote:  Since you are interested, start here.

If you look at the keys (numbers beside the words) you can further your search by looking at other words that represent your current curiosity.

Holy SHIT!!!

All this about SHIT in the bible?

What a collection of heavenly wisdom that book must be!!! Big Grin
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