A chat with Chris Andrus from ChristianityisTrue.org
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04-11-2016, 12:10 PM
A chat with Chris Andrus from ChristianityisTrue.org
So here is a couple of things we have discussed. I would like criticism of my view and some guidance on my next reply.
He doesn't seem to answer my question. He seems really smart with clever word games so I might need help in case I contradict myself.

CM.Bradley (@Citizen859) on November 1, 2016 at 1:30 pm said:
All this talk is a bit above my high school education.
What I can see is that if this god is true, life is a trap.
I never asked to be born. No one consulted me. I feel this is a pretty big deal.
Why is this never addressed? If I am so important why have to go through a bizarre test? Why be born into a game that you cannot win?
I’ve no choice but to choose. That isn’t a choice to me. And it doesn’t matter that god is outside of logic or whatever you mean by that. The reality is I am forced into an unwinnable game but given this “choice” of paths. It is unreasonable, and in my opinion evil. Like some game a kid would play where no matter what he wins in the end. It’s just not reasonable to believe in that at all.
Further, what is the ultimate goal of god? It seems that Heaven is just a bunch of ‘super fans’ stalking this god like some crazed paparazzi forever. That doesn’t appeal to me in the least.
It seems that god is lonely and has low self esteem. It makes absolutely zero sense.
Reply ↓

Christopher Andrus
on November 1, 2016 at 4:23 pm said:
I appreciate your willingness to interact with my arguments and also your honest expression of your struggle with God’s existence. Your objections are well thought out, but there are some basic flaws in them. First, the notion that you could have had a choice in whether or not you exist (whether it was through an accidental alignment of mindless forces or by being created by God) is pointless. You exist. If you didn’t, the question of whether or not you wanted to exist would be nonsensical. And given that you exist, you have countless choices. I would say that that should be seen as a good thing, not a bad thing.
As for what God wants. Worship of beings who either don’t actually exist or beings who are not Perfect is wrong. This is idolatry in Biblical terms. But worship of The True God is both right and most desirable because He loves us as our Perfect Father (if we are willing to accept His love), having sent His Eternal and Perfect Son to suffer and die so that we might be forgiven and restored to Him as His children, and having sent His Holy Spirit in order to make us into perfect children. I would point out that all of this is unique to the Christian Message.
All it takes to “win” is to accept that God exists (which we say that you already know is true, but are both naturally-inclined and taught to suppress) and to accept His offer of immeasurable and endless blessings. God doesn’t need any of us to worship Him, nor did He need to create any of us or, even, create anything at all (unlike the Muslim & Jewish monistic conceptions of God, in which God must create something or someone to relate to). But God created us because He wanted to have a bigger family than He originally had in the Triumvirate of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We can be a part of this family if we wish. But He doesn’t force us to be. However, to refuse His offer is the most foolish choice anyone could ever make.
Please let me know if this is helpful to you.
God bless you,
Chris
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CM.Bradley (@Citizen859) on November 3, 2016 at 3:29 pm said:
“First, the notion that you could have had a choice in whether or not you exist (whether it was through an accidental alignment of mindless forces or by being created by God) is pointless.”
It is not pointless. I resent not having a chance to accept or reject life.
“Even in the womb I knew you.” Why aren’t we given the same courtesy? If god is so pro choice, why aren’t we given a choice? If we are so important how could we not always have been consciously aware of making the choice? Because a conscious choice was not required for birth it is evident that the game is rigged. No choice of birth and force fed an ideology that one must accept or perish is the same device used by ISIS.
It angers me that I am thrust into a world where man was deliberately created to be defective and evil. Because Eve was created by a mans rib and then was convinced by a talking snake to eat an apple from this magical tree. Then god commands you to get better or he will punish you with eternity of pain, because he wants you to be perfect?
If this is true then it means one of two things.
1- God had to abide by some type of rules and that is why ‘it is what it is’. If that is the case, sign me up!
2- God is malevolent
So giving you the benefit of the doubt that your god exists in the first place, the answer is self evident.
“As for what God wants. Worship of beings who either don’t actually exist or beings who are not Perfect is wrong. This is idolatry in Biblical terms. But worship of The True God is both right and most desirable because He loves us as our Perfect Father (if we are willing to accept His love), having sent His Eternal and Perfect Son to suffer and die so that we might be forgiven and restored to Him as His children, and having sent His Holy Spirit in order to make us into perfect children. I would point out that all of this is unique to the Christian Message.”
WHY?
Why not skip the bullshit and get to the point?
Again, he either has to follow rules or he is evil.
All it takes to “win” is to accept that God exists (which we say that you already know is true, but are both naturally-inclined and taught to suppress) and to accept His offer of immeasurable and endless blessings. God doesn’t need any of us to worship Him, nor did He need to create any of us or, even, create anything at all (unlike the Muslim & Jewish monistic conceptions of God, in which God must create something or someone to relate to). But God created us because He wanted to have a bigger family than He originally had in the Triumvirate of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We can be a part of this family if we wish. But He doesn’t force us to be. However, to refuse His offer is the most foolish choice anyone could ever make.
First, it is the apex of arrogance that you tell me that I already know something is true. Are you apart of my consciousness? No you are not. You have your experience to draw from only. (Not angry just commenting)
If god wanted a bigger family, why the BS?
What’s wrong with him? Honestly why does he require this? Because he wants everyone to feel what he feels? Why does he put the cost of that feeling on the heads of innocent children who suffer and die every second of every day?
He either had to conform to some rule book in order for this to happen, or he is malevolent.
Furthermore, read your paragraph over and over. At some point I would hope you would see how you sound. Love, Love, Love, Love or else. Come one man. Seriously???
If you have children, and for whatever ever reason they chose not to believe in your god, can you honestly say that you would have no problem with god throwing them into a lake of fire?
Then can you say that you would happily forget about them forever? No amount of rationalizing can excuse the insanity of answering affirmatively.
Look I appreciate your concern for your fellow man. You need to be able to open yourself up to the possibility that you are mistaken.
I grew up in a southern baptist church. I was ‘saved’ when I was sixteen. I had my own key to the church! I never attended any of the youth groups. I took only adult classes. I’ve read the Bible cover to cover and I understand how powerful belief is. Couple true belief with emotion and that is the final nail in the coffin of objectivity. I was the guy who was being groomed for leading the next generation of believers. I was the guy that knocked on strangers doors with the good news of salvation. I guarantee you my conviction was the same as yours.
When I was 24, I was in a laundry mat and was thinking about refiners fire. I thought about god testing for impurities of faith. What are these impurities? One idea was the impurities of other ways of thinking and how someone smarter than me could influence me. I needed to ‘know my enemy’ so that I couldn’t be outsmarted and be influenced sub consciously.
I picked up a book, Philosophy for dummies. I left god within 24 hours, and am truly free now.
It was hard. When everything you believed with every once of your being was just a defense mechanism was upsetting. I had to find my own meaning to life. It was the bravest thing I’ve ever done and I am a better human being for it.
Reply ↓

Christopher Andrus
on November 4, 2016 at 3:02 am said:
Not bad for a high-school education! I share my own intellectual journey in the piece on this site: “The Question That We All Should Ask”. I encourage you to read it if you haven’t already.
How can you say you haven’t had a choice? Have you not made the choice to abandon Christianity, along with countless other choices you have made in your life? I suspect that something happened to you that you haven’t mentioned which made you mad at God and that is the real reason you left Him (your own word choice). But leaving Him doesn’t make Him non-existent. Sorry, but that’s actually a childish pretense.
And the Greeks were simply wrong (like all unbelieving thinkers, rejecting God and His Truth for a substitute, accepting some aspects of The Truth and rejecting others). Good and evil cannot be abstract ideals, which are over us and any other beings (including God, for this would mean He is not truly Supreme). Good and evil only arise from beings who have choices. And the Triune God is The Original Being, without Whom the existence of any other beings is inexplicable.
Everything that God does is good, even though none of us can see this in our current state of existence. I grant that this is a matter of faith. But if it wasn’t true, then it would truly be the case that nothing is what it seems and that “anything goes”. But none of us actually believes this. If anything at all can be trusted, it must be that God is good. And He is good not because He is able to keep some impersonal Ideal which is above Him, nor by definition (that whatever He does becomes good, which would be arbitrary). Rather, God is Perfectly Good because it is a characteristic of His Personality as a Triune Personal Being, just as there are people who are essentially good (though not perfectly) along with people who are essentially evil. Though many Christians don’t understand this, God could do evil, but He never would.
I pray that you will work through whatever really caused you to turn away from your Creator and play the original game of Denial. However, your testimony makes me fear that you may be one of those described in Hebrews 6:4-6. But I don’t think either I or you can know for certain that this is the case until The End. I also wonder if you ever truly understood and trusted in God’s Promise. If so, then you would know that He could never condemn you and will love you forever. We can know that we are one of the Elect during our lives in this world, but can’t know for sure that we are not until The End. After all, how do you know that God won’t forgive and save you before your next breath?
Once again, I thank you for sharing and pray that it will be helpful to you.
Chris
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04-11-2016, 12:27 PM
RE: A chat with Chris Andrus from ChristianityisTrue.org
I'm too dumb to reply philosophically but not dumb enough to believe in this guys view on religion keep fighting bro and don't give into dicks like this.
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04-11-2016, 12:38 PM
RE: A chat with Chris Andrus from ChristianityisTrue.org
(04-11-2016 12:27 PM)adey67 Wrote:  I'm too dumb to reply philosophically but not dumb enough to believe in this guys view on religion keep fighting bro and don't give into dicks like this.

Its like he won't answer my questions directly.
I dunno. I just need to know if i should even bother continuing. But I am stubborn and cannot stand to just blow it off.
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04-11-2016, 01:30 PM
RE: A chat with Chris Andrus from ChristianityisTrue.org
he can't answer your questions and avoid getting trapped. You may as well be engaging in a conversation with a bot.
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04-11-2016, 01:51 PM
RE: A chat with Chris Andrus from ChristianityisTrue.org
Why are you talking to him? He doesn't have anything to say but stock apologetics.

He gives the game up with this quote:

Everything that God does is good, even though none of us can see this in our current state of existence. I grant that this is a matter of faith.

Then he contradicts himself in the very next sentence, the guy is an apologetics pea-brain, not worth the time or effort. Drinking Beverage

BTW- Suffering/evil is not linked to humans, this is a fundamental disconnect from reality that Christians have. We have literal mountains of evidence of living things dying and suffering long before we walked the Earth, this pea-brain can't explain that away.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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05-11-2016, 03:51 AM
RE: A chat with Chris Andrus from ChristianityisTrue.org
(04-11-2016 12:38 PM)cmbradley01 Wrote:  
(04-11-2016 12:27 PM)adey67 Wrote:  I'm too dumb to reply philosophically but not dumb enough to believe in this guys view on religion keep fighting bro and don't give into dicks like this.

Its like he won't answer my questions directly.
I dunno. I just need to know if i should even bother continuing. But I am stubborn and cannot stand to just blow it off.

Actually rethinking this it might be best for your sanity to quit, christians like this won't ever change their minds regardless of how good the argument or evidence is that you produce, because they don't want to.
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05-11-2016, 03:59 AM
RE: A chat with Chris Andrus from ChristianityisTrue.org
Just ask for proof. Done and done.
This thread was top of the heap when I left home at 8.30 am. It is now 8.59 pm. WTF????

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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