A consideration of faith
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31-01-2015, 07:01 AM
RE: A consideration of faith
(27-01-2015 08:49 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(27-01-2015 07:27 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  ...
Let's swim in the ocean of possibility each axiom creates for us and enjoy it all while it lasts.
...
...
As for foundations, ideally we build them up into the best logically consistent systems possible; but as for what those foundations are actually built from, that gets a little hazy.

Y'know what? I've been chewing this over (from inside my own Cloude of Unknowyng) for quite a while and have come to the conclusion that I need assistance.

The top of the 'stack' could well be...
(26-01-2015 02:38 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  ...
evolutionary drive of "simulation of future"
...

... plus, perhaps, the 'simulation of self' and our self-monitoring system's monitoring systems.

The foundation? That's easy ... that's the biological ones and zeros.

It's the middle of the 'stack' where I flounder.

I need biology experts, fizzy-cysts, philosophers, IT programmers, IT systems pros and AI gurus to help.

If I laid out my (for want of a better word) 'thesis'... who's up for a TTA Community Project to get all this resolved, once and for now?

If you are genuinely interested in having a semi-serious stab at defining the whole stack (from our ones and zeros up to our self-simulation software) please lemme know stating your field of expertise.

Cheers.

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31-01-2015, 07:27 AM
RE: A consideration of faith
(31-01-2015 07:01 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(27-01-2015 08:49 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  ...
As for foundations, ideally we build them up into the best logically consistent systems possible; but as for what those foundations are actually built from, that gets a little hazy.

Y'know what? I've been chewing this over (from inside my own Cloude of Unknowyng) for quite a while and have come to the conclusion that I need assistance.

The top of the 'stack' could well be...
(26-01-2015 02:38 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  ...
evolutionary drive of "simulation of future"
...

... plus, perhaps, the 'simulation of self' and our self-monitoring system's monitoring systems.

The foundation? That's easy ... that's the biological ones and zeros.

It's the middle of the 'stack' where I flounder.

I need biology experts, fizzy-cysts, philosophers, IT programmers, IT systems pros and AI gurus to help.

If I laid out my (for want of a better word) 'thesis'... who's up for a TTA Community Project to get all this resolved, once and for now?

If you are genuinely interested in having a semi-serious stab at defining the whole stack (from our ones and zeros up to our self-simulation software) please lemme know stating your field of expertise.

Cheers.

Sounds like a fool's errand.

I'm in. Evolution, mathematics, logic.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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31-01-2015, 08:46 AM
RE: A consideration of faith
Will it require any expertise in fish ID?

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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31-01-2015, 09:15 AM
RE: A consideration of faith
What would the mission statement be? To simulate a human being? To simulate society? A lower hanging fruit I have been meaning to pick for a while is to build an evolving species of recurrent neural network whose selection criteria is "be interesting".

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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31-01-2015, 09:15 PM
RE: A consideration of faith
(31-01-2015 08:46 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  Will it require any expertise in fish ID?

Probably not.

But knowledge of fishy neurology might be useful.

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(31-01-2015 09:15 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  What would the mission statement be? To simulate a human being? To simulate society? A lower hanging fruit I have been meaning to pick for a while is to build an evolving species of recurrent neural network whose selection criteria is "be interesting".

Well, it might 'be interesting' as an exercise ... or a fool's errand, as Chas predicts. Or both.

I think you're closest with the former... an analysis / comparison of human systems and IT / AI systems.

Up for it?

And Mathilda's an AI specialist. We'll need her too.

Yes

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01-02-2015, 12:54 AM
RE: A consideration of faith
(26-01-2015 02:38 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  do not get in my face and question my faith.

K?

Fuck you, If your faith is fucking retarded, I have every right to question it.


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01-02-2015, 03:29 AM
RE: A consideration of faith
(27-01-2015 08:44 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  I was sloppy in my generalization, however there's a vector of identity that perseveres for groups of time.

That is what I used to think. I don't think so anymore. I have started seeing micro evolution in just about everything, from the clump of daisies in my garden to my own mind.

Every thought, every action by you or others, everything changes you. If your brain processes it, it changes you.

When the change is too intrusive, dissonance occurs. We try not to change, change is uncomfortable. Yet we change with every breath we take.

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01-02-2015, 03:37 AM
RE: A consideration of faith
Being a pickle doesn't make you an expert at growing cucumbers.

If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities.--Voltaire.

"To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." --Thomas Paine.
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02-02-2015, 12:53 PM
RE: A consideration of faith
(31-01-2015 07:01 AM)DLJ Wrote:  The top of the 'stack' could well be...
(26-01-2015 02:38 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  ...
evolutionary drive of "simulation of future"
...

... plus, perhaps, the 'simulation of self' and our self-monitoring system's monitoring systems.

The foundation? That's easy ... that's the biological ones and zeros.

It's the middle of the 'stack' where I flounder.

I need biology experts, fizzy-cysts, philosophers, IT programmers, IT systems pros and AI gurus to help.

If I laid out my (for want of a better word) 'thesis'... who's up for a TTA Community Project to get all this resolved, once and for now?

If you are genuinely interested in having a semi-serious stab at defining the whole stack (from our ones and zeros up to our self-simulation software) please lemme know stating your field of expertise.

I'm a little confused as to what you're attempting. Are you trying to come up with a theory that unifies everything from cell biology to who we are as a human species and why we function the way we do?

We already have it to some extent if you miss out on explaining every detail. Although sometimes the gaps can be quite large. If you re-run the process you'll get different details but evidence is that eventually you'll still have the same development of complexity given the right conditions because the mechanism underlying it is the same.
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02-02-2015, 01:56 PM
RE: A consideration of faith
(02-02-2015 12:53 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  ...
I'm a little confused as to what you're attempting. Are you trying to come up with a theory that unifies everything from cell biology to who we are as a human species and why we function the way we do?

We already have it to some extent if you miss out on explaining every detail. Although sometimes the gaps can be quite large. If you re-run the process you'll get different details but evidence is that eventually you'll still have the same development of complexity given the right conditions because the mechanism underlying it is the same.

I'm suggesting a community project where we attempt to map the model you describe above (for carbon-based life-forms) onto a similar model for IT systems (silicon-based life-forms).

Then we do a gap analysis and from that we make predictions regarding the future evolution of IT towards AI... book deal ... retire rich.

That should kill an afternoon.

Are you in?

Yes

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