A conversation with my wife goes like this...
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28-05-2015, 02:57 PM
RE: A conversation with my wife goes like this...
(28-05-2015 02:48 PM)Nishi Karano Kaze Wrote:  
(28-05-2015 02:44 PM)Tonechaser77 Wrote:  The typical christian propaganda nonsense: Praying over your kids and family. Talking to them about god so that it is ingrained in their thinking. Keeping a daily relationship with god. Bible reading (which I still do). Attending church (which I still do because I enjoy the music and still play in the band). Being an godly example for others. Weeping
I see. Sorry that I don't have any useful input. It's an entirely alien situation for me. I hope she will see and understand that you are still (hopefully) a good father, husband and person.

Thank you, I appreciate that. It helps for me to vent on here too. Confused

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28-05-2015, 02:58 PM
RE: A conversation with my wife goes like this...
(28-05-2015 11:36 AM)Tonechaser77 Wrote:  This is slightly odd. My wife has been dealing with my backsliddeness over the past two years in bits and chunks. I can only imagine how unbelievably scared she is however she won't sit down and talk to me about it, she will only say she's praying for me.

There is nothing odd about this. I am in a similar boat with my wife. The main difference is that when we were first married 12 years ago, I was still in the deist realm and I saw god differently. I know that she thought that I would probably "come around" (which is so condescending, she has no idea). Shoot, my sister told her that if anyone could bring me to jesus, it was her. Guess what actually happened?


(28-05-2015 11:36 AM)Tonechaser77 Wrote:  Over the past 6 months I have refused to pray with our kids, etc and let her do it. She tries to squeeze prayer out of me in front of them at bed time, saying things like "It's daddy's turn to pray, right boys?" to which of course they jump on the bandwagon with, yay, daddy, you pray. I always deflect back to mom. She knows my struggle and where I'm settling in as a nonbeliever but last night, refusing to pray put her over the edge. She would not talk to me the remainder of the night or this morning.

Sorry about this, bro. She shouldn't ignore you like that. Kids are where it gets tricky. So have you told her about the you praying at meals situation before? That is actually kind of douchy of her to put you on the spot like that knowing how you feel. Or do you think that when you tell her how you think/feel she twists it into something more palatable for her? My wife does that sometimes. I will say something and later when she says it back to me, it is totally not what I said and it is twisted into some sort of meaning that may be positive to her. Have you ever asked her what SHE thinks you think? You know, to see whether she actually gets what you are saying?

(28-05-2015 11:36 AM)Tonechaser77 Wrote:  Me: Sigh* I know you think this is something I'm dealing with but it's much deeper than that. When I read my bible with an open mind and see what god commanded: the right to own and beat humans as slaves, women's values half that of a man's, ridiculous laws, killing of hundreds of thousands of people, I'm sorry but I cannot worship or pray to a deity when I am more morally sound than said god.

Said this to mine as well and she punts it to someone else, saying that I need to talk to somebody who knows more than her. Have you asked her what she thinks about these passages before?

(28-05-2015 11:36 AM)Tonechaser77 Wrote:  I will not push anyone else in our family to NOT believe, but I also cannot condone anyone blindly accepting all the things I talked about above without a reason.

I totally think this is the best attitude to have. I also think that you need to be who you are for your kids. Personally, mine know that I don't believe but I keep the talking to a minimum. She brings them to church and whatnot but I will not go. I want them to see that there are people who don't believe and are not afraid. I think that you are being a strong head of the house because you are showing who you are and are not ashamed. I can't help but I wonder whether she is a little ashamed of you although much of it is also probably fear. My wife is scared/ashamed although she would never admit it. If I ever come up, I can't imagine what some say (Oh, I'm sorry, He's arrogant, I'll pray for him, etc.)

(28-05-2015 11:36 AM)Tonechaser77 Wrote:  And just so you know I have prayed. I have prayed for 24 months, balling my eyes out for answers on my commute to and from work, which I have told you before. Begging god to show up in my life and give me confirmation. What do i get? Nothing. I have tried praying for things that I know could only be answered by him...what do I get? Nothing. It's either a yes, no or maybe later.....? Hmmm how convenient god.

Did she ever talk to you about this later? I can't imagine that she won't ask a church friend about this. I said the same thing to my wife and of course she asked someone and they gave her the usual crap.

(28-05-2015 11:36 AM)Tonechaser77 Wrote:  (a funny ending to a rather serious morning.) However, I now know she sees where I am at. She may not understand and before she would not sit down and talk to me about it because of fear. I think she is afraid of not believing herself. I have to break things down into minuscule bites. My saga continues......Confused

Best of luck to you. Thumbsup

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The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
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28-05-2015, 03:12 PM
RE: A conversation with my wife goes like this...
Quote: I think if she were to be completely transparent with me that she would say she is scared to lose who I was. The guy she fell in love with was a hardcore christian crazy in love with god (i.e. the voices in his head). That's what drew her to me, among other things.


You need to ascertain if she loves her fantasies more than you. Honestly, she sounds too far gone to be able to tolerate the situation for very long.

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28-05-2015, 03:20 PM
RE: A conversation with my wife goes like this...
The Organic Chemist Wrote:There is nothing odd about this. I am in a similar boat with my wife. The main difference is that when we were first married 12 years ago, I was still in the deist realm and I saw god differently. I know that she thought that I would probably "come around" (which is so condescending, she has no idea). Shoot, my sister told her that if anyone could bring me to jesus, it was her. Guess what actually happened?

I think that's exactly what my wife thinks. I will "come around." She is praying for me to get through the 'valley of the shadow' that I am walking through. Ugh.

The Organic Chemist Wrote:Sorry about this, bro. She shouldn't ignore you like that. Kids are where it gets tricky. So have you told her about the you praying at meals situation before? That is actually kind of douchy of her to put you on the spot like that knowing how you feel. Or do you think that when you tell her how you think/feel she twists it into something more palatable for her? My wife does that sometimes. I will say something and later when she says it back to me, it is totally not what I said and it is twisted into some sort of meaning that may be positive to her. Have you ever asked her what SHE thinks you think? You know, to see whether she actually gets what you are saying?

I may be at fault here because I have not come out and told her specifically that I don't feel comfortable when she asks me to pray. I shouldn't assume that she would realize it but maybe I have.

The Organic Chemist Wrote:Said this to mine as well and she punts it to someone else, saying that I need to talk to somebody who knows more than her. Have you asked her what she thinks about these passages before?

I have approached several people about this. 1) A fellow worship leader that I used to lead worship with at a different church. He wouldn't respond. 2) An old college room mate who is now a pastor of a church. He just said, you have to approach everything with a proper set of biblical hermeneutics or else you throw the baby out with the bath water. I wanted to enter into this journey with as few presuppositions as possible though, using hermeneutics merely defeats the purpose because you've already began with the end in mind. Circular reasoning. 3) I have approached several other people at work who are christians, one person is actually starting her own journey now...she is a member of the same church I attend.

The Organic Chemist Wrote:I totally think this is the best attitude to have. I also think that you need to be who you are for your kids. Personally, mine know that I don't believe but I keep the talking to a minimum. She brings them to church and whatnot but I will not go. I want them to see that there are people who don't believe and are not afraid. I think that you are being a strong head of the house because you are showing who you are and are not ashamed. I can't help but I wonder whether she is a little ashamed of you although much of it is also probably fear. My wife is scared/ashamed although she would never admit it. If I ever come up, I can't imagine what some say (Oh, I'm sorry, He's arrogant, I'll pray for him, etc.)

Very possible that she is ashamed of me or will be much more ashamed at some point in the future when I actually come out of the atheist closet.


The Organic Chemist Wrote:Did she ever talk to you about this later? I can't imagine that she won't ask a church friend about this. I said the same thing to my wife and of course she asked someone and they gave her the usual crap.

No, She may not even believe me. But given the level of sincerity I have always had about everything I am extremely analytical and don't throw away belief / premises easily without looking at as many possible scenarios as i can to make the best judgement for truth with the fewest amount of logical fallacies.

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29-05-2015, 06:15 AM
RE: A conversation with my wife goes like this...
(28-05-2015 02:44 PM)Tonechaser77 Wrote:  
(28-05-2015 02:25 PM)Nishi Karano Kaze Wrote:  We need you as the spiritual leader of our household.

What does that entail?

The typical christian propaganda nonsense: Praying over your kids and family. Talking to them about god so that it is ingrained in their thinking. Keeping a daily relationship with god. Bible reading (which I still do). Attending church (which I still do because I enjoy the music and still play in the band). Being an godly example for others. Weeping

I do hope you are you wife, and family are able to figure something out. But I am interested in a couple questions, if you don't mind me asking.

Was there a particular catalyst that led you down this path of de-conversion? Did you never read the entire bible before? Or have you read it before, and it just didn't shock you as much then, as it did now?

Did anything happen in your life that particularly led you to question everything? To sort of pop the bubble for you?
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29-05-2015, 06:21 AM
RE: A conversation with my wife goes like this...
Sadly I lack the wisdom to advise you. I am only able to wish you luck. Sad

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29-05-2015, 07:13 AM
RE: A conversation with my wife goes like this...
It's not fair for her to pressure you in such a way in front of the children to pray. I know you're trying to tread softly for fear of losing your marriage, but it sounds like she's going to dismiss your position as "just a phase" until you force her to have the needed conversation as husband and wife. She genuinely owes you the opportunity to express yourself to her and your concerns about what it means for your marriage.
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29-05-2015, 07:35 AM (This post was last modified: 29-05-2015 08:22 AM by Tonechaser77.)
RE: A conversation with my wife goes like this...
(29-05-2015 06:15 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(28-05-2015 02:44 PM)Tonechaser77 Wrote:  The typical christian propaganda nonsense: Praying over your kids and family. Talking to them about god so that it is ingrained in their thinking. Keeping a daily relationship with god. Bible reading (which I still do). Attending church (which I still do because I enjoy the music and still play in the band). Being an godly example for others. Weeping

I do hope you are you wife, and family are able to figure something out. But I am interested in a couple questions, if you don't mind me asking.

Was there a particular catalyst that led you down this path of de-conversion? Did you never read the entire bible before? Or have you read it before, and it just didn't shock you as much then, as it did now?

Did anything happen in your life that particularly led you to question everything? To sort of pop the bubble for you?


I grew up fundamentalist. I never ever questioned the bible because I was taught every word was true. Yes, I had read the bible before from cover to cover. Since I read it through my god colored glasses I merely neglected to see all the atrocities for what they were and attributed them to "god must have had a reason for it and I'll know in the sweet by and by." My ability to reason was nipped in the bud and kept being nipped until I was in my mid-30s.

The catalyst started with an introspection to want to be a better christian. I am a goal oriented person and at the beginning of 2013 I had made a goal to really take a hard look at where my life was "spiritually". I had been in church on auto-pilot for nearly 20 years and decided that I needed to find out what I believed and what was true. I wanted to be able to defend my faith. Desiring this outlook was further confirmed when our current church did a series called Questioning God; Faith and Doubt. I finally felt like I could walk down that path. I started questioning. I started reading the bible without presuppositions. I started talking to christians and to atheists. I started reading the apologists basics, C.S. Lewis, N.T. Wrong Laughat and the propagandists like Josh McDowell, Frank Turek, Lee Strobel and Timothy Keller. Some of what they said made sense but the more I read the more questions I had that couldn't really be answered. From there I moved on to typical atheistic authors, Ehrman, Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris, Price, Smith, Carrier, Ingersoll, Barker (both Dan and Margaret). The list goes on. The first book that crossed over the theistic line was Dan Barker's Godless. I was stunned. The logic started falling into place and from there I watched as my belief system which was now tenuous at best began to melt away. From fundamentalist to theist to deist to agnostic to where I am now which i would say is a 6 on the Dawkins scale.

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29-05-2015, 07:47 AM
RE: A conversation with my wife goes like this...
I am not married and don't have kids, but I was in a long-term relationship with someone when I was a Christian and he was a non-believer. It created a lot of problems, not just from the pressure I put on myself for feeling I was doing something "wrong" in God eyes, but also due to the pressure put on me by other Christians and the church community. Not being equally yolked was a big deal to them and in my belief system at the time.

I struggled with his non-belief for a long time and struggled with whether or not I should stay in the rship since really that was the only sticking point and everything else was good. I constantly second guessed myself in that rship because of God/doing right by Him. I wanted him to go to church with me and share in all of that with me and he refused. I took it as a personal shot--that he wasn't even remotely interested in sharing in something that was so clearly important to me.

We talked about getting married, raising children--and that always ended in arguments because of course I wanted any kids we would have to be raised Christian and he did not. I also worried for his soul, worried he wouldn't be with me in heaven. I was so brainwashed by Christianity--I just couldn't get why he wanted nothing to do with God. It was simply incomprehensible to me.

Fast forward to a few years later in our rship, and I started having major doubts about religion after reading The *entire* Bible. I was also disgusted by the hate within the church for others who chose to live differently than they did. I slowly made the switch to atheism. During this time, my ex was having an epiphany of his own and decided to become more spiritual--which as you can imagine--completely turned our rship on its head.

The point to my ramblings lol--I can understand your wife's desire to have you with her in church and desire to raise kids Christian and not understanding why you don't believe in God anymore. I think when you are so far down the rabbit hole, it is really hard to see things clearly and rationally because everything that happens seems to be of God. Get a raise--God did it. Buy a new house in the neighborhood you wanted--God did it. The list goes on and on. It's really hard to separate God from your life when you are a believer, your family/friends are a group of believers, the members of your community are believers....everyone keeps reinforcing your belief system. Additionally, the idea of being shunned from all of that is enough to keep you in the fold. Then you add the threat of hell and it is like the perfect storm.

It is certainly a tough situation for you and your wife to be in. I am sure she felt like this was something out of left field--and I am sure being a Christian--it really scares her. I think it's just going to take some time and patience on both parts in dealing with all of this.
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29-05-2015, 08:22 AM
RE: A conversation with my wife goes like this...
Confused Been there. I hope it works out better for you than it did me. Hug

Venting here has helped me keep my wits about me. I'm in the closet with my family. I don't regret coming out to my husband - I'd rather live without him than have to live a lie with the person I vowed to share my life with. I gave it my all, and it still failed. Life goes on.

There are members here that make it work with their spouses, and there are those as myself where it didn't. I'm sure everyone here is about tired of my divorce drama. Good thing is, there's not much drama left to be had. Once I decide where I'm living I'll sign the damn papers.

Just something for you to ponder - how do you feel about your wife never leaving Christianity? Because that is a very real possibility. Her urging you to pray with the boys - in front of them - has got to stop. That undermining, manipulative behavior is unacceptable. Compare her actions to something similar "Mommy won't mind if we go to Disney World - Mommy, Disney World would be great to celebrate little Tommy's birthday, wouldn't it?"

My ex used to get pissed at me when my son would ask a question and he'd answer "cause God" and then I'd say "well actually...rainbows are..." He felt like I was undermining him - I made it clear it was unacceptable to me for him to give a "cause god" answer when we have science to explain how things work. I want a child that thinks, not a sheep. He agreed to give proper answers to science questions, but I was to keep my mouth shut about matters of faith Rolleyes

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