A debate with my Uncle.
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21-05-2012, 10:36 PM
RE: A debate with my Uncle.
(21-05-2012 02:34 PM)pppgggr Wrote:  I'd like to state right now, since some of you are getting the wrong idea, that this was a calm intellectual conversation. When he brought up the gun, he was using it as an example, not stating that he would actually do so. My Uncle is a very good man, and he's not an idiot either. He was an Atheist for a long while until he read "The Case for Christ". He's a very intelligent man by my standards......He just gets it wrong when it comes to religion. His body is being ravaged by cancer, his wife has left him, and he's lost his home. He's currently living with my grandmother. He takes comfort in religion. This post was to assist me in debunking his arguments, not to make him look like an idiot or a bad man. I do care about him.
You can have a calm, intellectual conversation and still have tough questions. He can be "a very good man" and "not an idiot" and still be telling you falsehoods and fiction, either learned from somebody he trusted or said in the interest of "the end justifying the means". It hardly matters if he has cancer, lost his wife, or lost his home -- these are irrelevant to the debate. There are still standards that one must adhere to if one wants to argue rationally, no matter what state of mind or physical condition one is in.

I certainly didn't personally attack your uncle, and I don't see anybody else doing that here, either. Attacking his arguments is not the same as attacking him.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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21-05-2012, 10:47 PM
RE: A debate with my Uncle.



Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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21-05-2012, 11:29 PM
RE: A debate with my Uncle.
(21-05-2012 10:36 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  
(21-05-2012 02:34 PM)pppgggr Wrote:  I'd like to state right now, since some of you are getting the wrong idea, that this was a calm intellectual conversation. When he brought up the gun, he was using it as an example, not stating that he would actually do so. My Uncle is a very good man, and he's not an idiot either. He was an Atheist for a long while until he read "The Case for Christ". He's a very intelligent man by my standards......He just gets it wrong when it comes to religion. His body is being ravaged by cancer, his wife has left him, and he's lost his home. He's currently living with my grandmother. He takes comfort in religion. This post was to assist me in debunking his arguments, not to make him look like an idiot or a bad man. I do care about him.
You can have a calm, intellectual conversation and still have tough questions. He can be "a very good man" and "not an idiot" and still be telling you falsehoods and fiction, either learned from somebody he trusted or said in the interest of "the end justifying the means". It hardly matters if he has cancer, lost his wife, or lost his home -- these are irrelevant to the debate. There are still standards that one must adhere to if one wants to argue rationally, no matter what state of mind or physical condition one is in.

I certainly didn't personally attack your uncle, and I don't see anybody else doing that here, either. Attacking his arguments is not the same as attacking him.
I'm just fine with you attacking his argument, but several of you were calling him a bad man.
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22-05-2012, 01:13 AM
RE: A debate with my Uncle.
No, we were not, but as he was using his examples to make a point, so are we. Did you miss this part of my sentence?

Quote: You should respect him, of course and I know he did not mean what he said, he only used it as an example.
We understand how he talked to you, we are just using the same technique, taking examples to understand and explain things easier and better.

Stick to the arguments, ignore subjective feelings, draw your own conclusions.

As for his troubles in life, now it is much more understandable why he became Christian again. For him it was the easy way out, escape from reality, help to hang on to some new hope, peace of mind, self-deluding into better tomorrow or afterlife... It is not a big surprise that he rediscovered Christ after some real life problems, it is quite common. Be supportive to him, try to help him as you can, but remember that now, at this moment he draw his strength from religion, do not try to rip it from him, he needs to relax and find his own peace first, before he can forget about Christ again.

But still, do not let him preach you too much, always hold your ground for your beliefs/disbeliefs.

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22-05-2012, 07:16 AM (This post was last modified: 22-05-2012 09:30 AM by ahoy.)
RE: A debate with my Uncle.
(22-05-2012 01:13 AM)Filox Wrote:  But still, do not let him preach you too much, always hold your ground for your beliefs/disbeliefs.

Preach? i thought it was a debate : )
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22-05-2012, 02:11 PM
RE: A debate with my Uncle.
Well yeah, but any debate with a religious person is kinda like preaching.

Smile

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I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours.
-Hunter S. Thompson
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22-05-2012, 05:51 PM
RE: A debate with my Uncle.
Hey take some care there: If you are have heard an argument before and have listened carefully to ensure it really is the argument you have heard, then it is fine to dismiss it based on reasoning you have already developed. It's reasonable in a debate scenario to explain your reasoning and to debunk false arguments.

However - holding your ground for your belief or disbelief is something that anyone should be careful with. It's OK to reserve judgement about things you don't have an answer to so that you can explore the issue in your own time, but it would be a shame to dismiss valid arguments or new ideas that might increase the depth of your own knowledge.

If you identify as atheist or agnostic then you should beware of displaying the same kinds of dogma that theists display.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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