A different way of confronting creationists
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28-02-2011, 06:58 PM
 
A different way of confronting creationists
Maybe using science to refute nonsense isn’t always the best strategy. Science requires intellectual integrity and serious research and study. Scientific knowledge is hard won. But you can pull nonsense out of your ass all day long.

You can refute one creationist argument just to have ten more thrown at you. Creationists reserve the right to invoke magic & miracles, but expect biologists to live up to impossible standards of proof in defense of evolution.

I say that instead of refuting nonsense with science, we should fight nonsense with nonsense. I think we should invent a rival intelligent design theory that invokes polytheistic beliefs, like the Greek or Norse pantheon. It would be obviously tongue-in-cheek, but at the same time show them why their own arguments don’t make sense.

We could mirror the arguments used by creationists, but in a pagan guise that they would be forced to reject. For example we could argue that the universe is too complex to have been the product of just one creator. They would be forced to attack their own arguments for creationism. And it gives us the same ability as they have to invoke magic and miracles with a sprinkling of science on top to make it sound, well, sciency.

I’d like to explore this idea because I sense some potential in it. Maybe some clever memes could come out of it. Does anyone have any thoughts on it? What would be a good name for it? “Polytheistic Design”?
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28-02-2011, 07:02 PM
RE: A different way of confronting creationists
All hail discord.

So many cats, so few good recipes.
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28-02-2011, 07:19 PM
RE: A different way of confronting creationists
I fundamentally disagree. I don't think scientists, or anyone for that matter, should stoop to the level of pseudoscience or leave scientific discourse because it is difficult. the reason we have any respect for science is precisely because it is the best way of determining what is true and that is hard. Repeated tests and trials are hard and vital for discerning truth.
If the creationists want to simply throw crap at us, we refute it one by one and show how they are wrong and maybe even lying. They lose credibility, they are shown to be wrong, and science keeps its integrity.

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use." - Galileo

"Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do." - Voltaire
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28-02-2011, 07:48 PM
RE: A different way of confronting creationists
I actually did that with a creationist, she said I was being illogical and fallacious lmao
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28-02-2011, 09:25 PM
RE: A different way of confronting creationists
This is the entire "Flying Spaghetti Monster" argument; fighting absurdity with absurdity.

I generally agree with daemonower (that's a heck of a name to type, btw!), but I think the problem you run into is that if you're not a biologist it becomes tough to defend evolution to the nth degree. I certainly don't get all the specifics of microbiology and while I can make the case that there are so many transitional fossils that it is already embarrassing that people deny their existence, it does not take very long before I am well out of my depth on the topic.

Still, I've tried to make the point in the past that my lack of education on the topic does not mean it's not understood. And, usually the theist arguing it with me understands it less than I do!

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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28-02-2011, 10:57 PM
RE: A different way of confronting creationists
The question is who starts the argument, because if a creationist comes calling out against something they better have proof that there isn't an actual answer and not expect you to find it. If they're taking point it's on them to prove a lack of evidence not on you to find evidence. If you call their statements to question then you give them what you can, and let them know that the entirety of human knowledge is not something you can easily spew out at any moment and that you'll look over their questions for a later time.

You know a good way to handle most creationists? The use of bible versus, the best answer to someone who does not take the time to prove their position is to show how little proof they have of their own position. If they can prove that you the average working class atheist don't know every detail of science then prove that they the extremist Christian don't know everything about Christianity. If they're trying to give you proofs that are irrefutible they better have a good knowledge of their own evidence to the contrary.

While making false religions is sometimes entertaining it's really a bad idea to state we can't give you answers so we'll make some up as well. Yes Christians tend to call other religious arguments silly, even if you use one from an opposing sect of Christianity. But they never get the point of the argument. They always just completely invalidate any arguments brought up on opposing religious views. You have to accept at times that a creationist tackles condemning evolution the way a four year old tackles the meaning of life. Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Your stupid. An argument that has never failed because after enough why's the person gets completely fed up with the conversation.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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01-03-2011, 10:15 AM
RE: A different way of confronting creationists
An open handed slap across the face?

Liberty loving, gun owning Atheist. Don't worry it confuses the right as well.
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01-03-2011, 02:05 PM
RE: A different way of confronting creationists
I like the celestial tea pot. Smile

I want to rip off your superstitions and make passionate sense to you
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01-03-2011, 04:31 PM
RE: A different way of confronting creationists
I am a proud follower of Inglip. Big Grin

All hail the great lord Inglip!!

"The tendency to turn human judgments into divine commands makes religion one of the most dangerous forces in the world.”
-Georgia Harkness.

"La fe es patrimonio de los pendejos. (Faith is patrimony of the dumbfucks)."
-Diego Rivera
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01-03-2011, 05:20 PM
 
RE: A different way of confronting creationists
(28-02-2011 07:02 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  All hail discord.

All hail Eris!
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