A dilemma: How an American could be a real atheist?
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09-08-2016, 11:27 AM
RE: A dilemma: How an American could be a real atheist?
(09-08-2016 06:53 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(09-08-2016 02:46 AM)KerimF Wrote:  You may be right if you are isolated from the facts I know.

Let us start with a simple clear example.
It seems to me from your replies that you have no idea how Pr. Bush addressed the nation a few minutes after the first crash on the WTC tower on 9/11/2001.
Have you? Thank you.

He didn't. But what's this you think you have such value to add. Nothing you've said is anything new to the great concerns or details millions have talked up over the years.

Again, how does anything 9/11, bush, or anything relevant to that in any concept have anything to do with Americans being atheists or any of point connected to an irrational notion of "real" things.

Your remark is interesting. So let us see what happened on this thread.

First, most of those who joined this thread claim being atheist (if not all). Do you think I am imagining this?

Second, an atheist is proud for believing in facts not stories (as of Adam and Eve). Am I saying non-sense?

Third, although an atheist American is smart enough to refuse believing the fairy tales that were addressed to the ancient people (the kids of humanity), he doesn’t mind believing any story made about an important event if this pleases the representatives of his system, his earthly ruling god, and his belief lets him be, therefore, on the safe side.

A real rational person is not ready to believe fairy tales from any source, said religious or political.
But in a nation whose people are closely watched, an atheist can say: “God doesn’t exist”. But he cannot say: “the bogyman created on 9/11/2001 doesn’t exist as well”.
Yes, in front of the entire world, Al-Qaeda is burning since year 2010, one city after another and one country after another while terrorizing and attacking millions of non-American civilians and national forces. And it will keep doing its mission for many decades to come (as declared clearly by the White House)... for the glory of the American Elite.
Yes, since NO SYSTEM (country/nation) in the world dares even thinking to attack America, the American big bosses had no choice but to sacrifice a few thousands of their people on 9/11/2001 to replace, in less than 24 hours and for good, ’Communism’ by ‘Terror of Islam’ (after proving that Allah decided to be the anti-Islam idiot god who gave the world a solid proof that his believers are made ready to be the new beasts against humanity).

In brief, a theist American has to defend the fairy tales approved by the representatives of his heavenly ruling god also the ones approved by the representatives of his earthly ruling system. An atheist American has the advantage that he needs to defend the latter ones only Wink

Please don’t worry if you cannot understand what I say... life will go on as always anyway Big Grin

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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09-08-2016, 11:32 AM
RE: A dilemma: How an American could be a real atheist?
(09-08-2016 02:46 AM)KerimF Wrote:  You may be right if you are isolated from the facts I know.

You mean isolated from this?

[Image: null_1.png]

#sigh
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09-08-2016, 12:05 PM
RE: A dilemma: How an American could be a real atheist?
(09-08-2016 11:27 AM)KerimF Wrote:  
(09-08-2016 06:53 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  He didn't. But what's this you think you have such value to add. Nothing you've said is anything new to the great concerns or details millions have talked up over the years.

Again, how does anything 9/11, bush, or anything relevant to that in any concept have anything to do with Americans being atheists or any of point connected to an irrational notion of "real" things.

Your remark is interesting. So let us see what happened on this thread.

First, most of those who joined this thread claim being atheist (if not all). Do you think I am imagining this?

Second, an atheist is proud for believing in facts not stories (as of Adam and Eve). Am I saying non-sense?

Third, although an atheist American is smart enough to refuse believing the fairy tales that were addressed to the ancient people (the kids of humanity), he doesn’t mind believing any story made about an important event if this pleases the representatives of his system, his earthly ruling god, and his belief lets him be, therefore, on the safe side.

A real rational person is not ready to believe fairy tales from any source, said religious or political.
But in a nation whose people are closely watched, an atheist can say: “God doesn’t exist”. But he cannot say: “the bogyman created on 9/11/2001 doesn’t exist as well”.
Yes, in front of the entire world, Al-Qaeda is burning since year 2010, one city after another and one country after another while terrorizing and attacking millions of non-American civilians and national forces. And it will keep doing its mission for many decades to come (as declared clearly by the White House)... for the glory of the American Elite.
Yes, since NO SYSTEM (country/nation) in the world dares even thinking to attack America, the American big bosses had no choice but to sacrifice a few thousands of their people on 9/11/2001 to replace, in less than 24 hours and for good, ’Communism’ by ‘Terror of Islam’ (after proving that Allah decided to be the anti-Islam idiot god who gave the world a solid proof that his believers are made ready to be the new beasts against humanity).

In brief, a theist American has to defend the fairy tales approved by the representatives of his heavenly ruling god also the ones approved by the representatives of his earthly ruling system. An atheist American has the advantage that he needs to defend the latter ones only Wink

Please don’t worry if you cannot understand what I say... life will go on as always anyway Big Grin

The second itself there is the problem. No, plenty people are just atheists because they happen to be. It's not some all connected to people thinking they're wiser to see past x fairytale or being proud to not believe something. That's just a characterization of some people.

Besides the notion of "smart enough" to "refuse" believing isn't an accurate description of any if the concepts. Atheism as a stance isn't some required smartness nor does belief in the brain work in a manner where people refuse beliefs in their way to forming internal conclusions.

The relevance of any if the rest is massively unconnected. It's only tangentially connected through piled upon assumptions and pointless labeling purity notions. Because again you add the notion "real" which is a phony dichotomy. There is no arbitrator of what a "real" x label is, that's partially why it's a pointless distinction that's some attempt to play the purity value of a group.

What... atheists or not, people in American can and do say that about 9/11 or any American government issue Constantly. Every single day things are said to that degree.

I don't know what drives your notion of pointing these things out or why you use notions of real x so much. But whatever you think is worth indulging would come out better without the stereotypical assumptions about groups and fallacious reasoning.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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09-08-2016, 12:06 PM
RE: A dilemma: How an American could be a real atheist?
(09-08-2016 05:35 AM)SYZ Wrote:  
(09-08-2016 02:38 AM)KerimF Wrote:  Sorry, these members gave me the impression that I am surrounded here by some nice kids who have nothing to add other than... No... No... No...

I've not read so much drivel as you've posted on this forum for a long time Kerim.

And can you please explain exactly what you mean by a "real" atheist? As distinct—presumably—from a fraudulent atheist?

And by extension, you must consider some theists to be frauds? And if that's the case, how do you separate them from the "real" theists?

Confused

I have never seen myself as a judge.
The reason is that every person is created/made for a certain role (short or long, simple or complex) to play in life (as long his human flesh is alive). So, I just try understanding others as they are (though, as you said, this is not easy to do).

On the other hand and in general, a theist and an atheist look somehow alike to me. Their main difference is to which ruling system(s) they decided to trust (hence obey).

So to be American and atheist at the same time, a person should refuse the existence of any supernatural ruling system and believe that the modern notions as "Freedom" and "Democracy" do exist as claimed by the earthly ruling system of USA.

In my case, I can't be a formal theist because, based on my logical reasoning (this will be explored with more details on a new thread), a ruling creator cannot exist. I also cannot have any specific nationality (based on my own will) because I don't trust any ruling system in the world. On the other hand, an atheist doesn't mind defending a certain ruling system that represents his ideals while it doesn't matter for him if this system does exist or not in reality.

Kerim

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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09-08-2016, 12:20 PM
RE: A dilemma: How an American could be a real atheist?
(09-08-2016 12:05 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(09-08-2016 11:27 AM)KerimF Wrote:  Your remark is interesting. So let us see what happened on this thread.

First, most of those who joined this thread claim being atheist (if not all). Do you think I am imagining this?

Second, an atheist is proud for believing in facts not stories (as of Adam and Eve). Am I saying non-sense?

Third, although an atheist American is smart enough to refuse believing the fairy tales that were addressed to the ancient people (the kids of humanity), he doesn’t mind believing any story made about an important event if this pleases the representatives of his system, his earthly ruling god, and his belief lets him be, therefore, on the safe side.

A real rational person is not ready to believe fairy tales from any source, said religious or political.
But in a nation whose people are closely watched, an atheist can say: “God doesn’t exist”. But he cannot say: “the bogyman created on 9/11/2001 doesn’t exist as well”.
Yes, in front of the entire world, Al-Qaeda is burning since year 2010, one city after another and one country after another while terrorizing and attacking millions of non-American civilians and national forces. And it will keep doing its mission for many decades to come (as declared clearly by the White House)... for the glory of the American Elite.
Yes, since NO SYSTEM (country/nation) in the world dares even thinking to attack America, the American big bosses had no choice but to sacrifice a few thousands of their people on 9/11/2001 to replace, in less than 24 hours and for good, ’Communism’ by ‘Terror of Islam’ (after proving that Allah decided to be the anti-Islam idiot god who gave the world a solid proof that his believers are made ready to be the new beasts against humanity).

In brief, a theist American has to defend the fairy tales approved by the representatives of his heavenly ruling god also the ones approved by the representatives of his earthly ruling system. An atheist American has the advantage that he needs to defend the latter ones only Wink

Please don’t worry if you cannot understand what I say... life will go on as always anyway Big Grin

The second itself there is the problem. No, plenty people are just atheists because they happen to be. It's not some all connected to people thinking they're wiser to see past x fairytale or being proud to not believe something. That's just a characterization of some people.

Besides the notion of "smart enough" to "refuse" believing isn't an accurate description of any if the concepts. Atheism as a stance isn't some required smartness nor does belief in the brain work in a manner where people refuse beliefs in their way to forming internal conclusions.

The relevance of any if the rest is massively unconnected. It's only tangentially connected through piled upon assumptions and pointless labeling purity notions. Because again you add the notion "real" which is a phony dichotomy. There is no arbitrator of what a "real" x label is, that's partially why it's a pointless distinction that's some attempt to play the purity value of a group.

What... atheists or not, people in American can and do say that about 9/11 or any American government issue Constantly. Every single day things are said to that degree.

I don't know what drives your notion of pointing these things out or why you use notions of real x so much. But whatever you think is worth indulging would come out better without the stereotypical assumptions about groups and fallacious reasoning.

As I said... let us not worry if we are not able to understand each other because life will continue as planned Big Grin
At least, we both gave what we have in mind about a few things.

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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09-08-2016, 12:26 PM
RE: A dilemma: How an American could be a real atheist?
(09-08-2016 11:32 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(09-08-2016 02:46 AM)KerimF Wrote:  You may be right if you are isolated from the facts I know.

You mean isolated from this?

[Image: null_1.png]

Not bad at all, this is indeed the symbol that defines accurately the Atheist Belief Big Grin
An atheist believes that the set of gods is actually an empty set.

But in my case, the set of ruling gods has to be an empty set.

Kerim

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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09-08-2016, 11:02 PM
RE: A dilemma: How an American could be a real atheist?
(09-08-2016 12:26 PM)KerimF Wrote:  Not bad at all, this is indeed the symbol that defines accurately the Atheist Belief Big Grin

An atheist believes that the set of gods is actually an empty set.

But in my case, the set of ruling gods has to be an empty set.

Kerim

That's one way of putting it. It is, however, not the only way of putting it and I would say it's the [i]wrong[i] way of putting it.

Perhaps re-wording it as "Here is a set with everything we currently know in it. Looking inside this set we see no good evidence for any of the claims that are made which say there is a deity within said set."

Of course..... information might, in the future, come to light where in we then revise things and say 'Oh look. There's the deity within the set.". Said thing not necessarily resembling that which others before have made claims which resemble said concepts of 'Diety-ism'.

Or something convoluted and cleverer than that.

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10-08-2016, 12:53 PM
RE: A dilemma: How an American could be a real atheist?
(04-08-2016 05:26 AM)KerimF Wrote:  I am sorry that zillion of people who are isolated in their golden cage, with or without their knowledge, are made to believe as being true and real the daily episodes of the "War on Terror" that the rest of the world is also watching... for 15 years so far.

Make sure you have subtitles running



Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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12-08-2016, 05:27 AM
RE: A dilemma: How an American could be a real atheist?
I guess it is time for another prelude thread Wink
Its title will be:
"The representatives of a non-existent god or notion DO exist"

Kerim

Note: Sorry... I don't open any link... I am interested hearing personal views in direct; as Peebothuhul did on his last post here.

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
Find all posts by this user
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12-08-2016, 06:02 AM
RE: A dilemma: How an American could be a real atheist?
At work.

Thanks for tthe compliment. Thumbsup

But I can't provide links from work.

Said 'Linker' was the awesome Deesse23. Thumbsup
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