A dilemma: How an American could be a real atheist?
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16-08-2016, 01:49 PM
RE: A dilemma: How an American could be a real atheist?
(15-08-2016 02:00 PM)KerimF Wrote:  
(12-08-2016 09:25 AM)LostLocke Wrote:  No.
Their main difference is whether or not they believe a god or deity exists.
That's it. Whether you agree or disagree with the US government has nothing to do with whether you believe in a god or deity.

Well...
I don't believe I made myself.
I don't believe my parents made me because they don't know whom I am as I know myself.
I don't believe that a non-intelligent thing could make my rather complex structure while a mere computer has needed many human brains to make it (hardware and software).

So I know there must be a certain intelligent Will/Power that forced me to exist into a realm, limited/defined by time and space, that we call the universe and the life within it.

But at the same time, my Creator has no reason to impose ANY law on me. The Will/Power that created me has already imposed its rules on ALL living things. These rules are embedded in their living structures. They are best known as instincts.
So, if I decide to live as a survival animal, I have no choice but to follow the instructions/rules of my instincts; as an individual or in a group (as it is the case of the survival animals in a jungle). Knowing this, it would be silly if I believe that my Creator would contact me to reveal any sort of heavenly rules that I should follow because, in this respect, my created instincts do the job already.

In brief, any god or deity that has some rules to be imposed on men doesn't (or has no reason to) exist in my reality. But I also understand that such ruling gods could be accepted by many others as they have accepted to be followers of certain ruling systems.

Therefore, I can't be a theist (unless his god has no commands at all) or an atheist (unless he is not a follower of any ruling system).

Sorry... I guess what I saig d above you likely never had the chance to hear it and you will likely never do Big Grin

Kerim
When you are talking about a "creator" , you are talking about Chuck Norris ? I can understand your post if you are referring to chuck Norris.

Religion is bullshit. The winner of the last person to post wins thread.Yes
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16-08-2016, 02:06 PM
RE: A dilemma: How an American could be a real atheist?
@RocketSurgeon

Unsupported contentions is too mild description for another conspiracy theory starting with nazis being tricked/encouraged by Americans into attacking USSR.

I like your tone but idiocy should be called such without mincing words I think. And ignoring work of historians in favor of "personal logic" or "personal observation" being nothing more than bunch of baseless assertions is idiocy. I don't even mention being preachy about all this.

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The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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16-08-2016, 05:02 PM
RE: A dilemma: How an American could be a real atheist?
(16-08-2016 02:06 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  @RocketSurgeon

Unsupported contentions is too mild description for another conspiracy theory starting with nazis being tricked/encouraged by Americans into attacking USSR.

I like your tone but idiocy should be called such without mincing words I think. And ignoring work of historians in favor of "personal logic" or "personal observation" being nothing more than bunch of baseless assertions is idiocy. I don't even mention being preachy about all this.

Agreed, but I suspect he has been subjected to decades of propaganda that has warped his view to a degree he simply doesn't realize (an allegation he is Projecting onto us), and has not yet learned to get past that propaganda not by trying to blindly form his own ideas/opinions but by studying what worldwide academics say about it... which is, of course, why we keep asking him for scholarly references.

Because he hasn't learned yet how to filter, I was trying to be kind in my tone, such that he might listead and his mind would not close off like the Christians who come here do, when we return their propaganda with derision and scorn.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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16-08-2016, 08:42 PM
RE: A dilemma: How an American could be a real atheist?
(16-08-2016 05:02 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(16-08-2016 02:06 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  @RocketSurgeon

Unsupported contentions is too mild description for another conspiracy theory starting with nazis being tricked/encouraged by Americans into attacking USSR.

I like your tone but idiocy should be called such without mincing words I think. And ignoring work of historians in favor of "personal logic" or "personal observation" being nothing more than bunch of baseless assertions is idiocy. I don't even mention being preachy about all this.

Agreed, but I suspect he has been subjected to decades of propaganda that has warped his view to a degree he simply doesn't realize (an allegation he is Projecting onto us), and has not yet learned to get past that propaganda not by trying to blindly form his own ideas/opinions but by studying what worldwide academics say about it... which is, of course, why we keep asking him for scholarly references.

Because he hasn't learned yet how to filter, I was trying to be kind in my tone, such that he might listead and his mind would not close off like the Christians who come here do, when we return their propaganda with derision and scorn.
In my opinion idiocy, baseless faith (redundant I know) and spreading propaganda deserve scorn and derision. It's not likely to change one mind I assume but neither is kind language able to do so.

If someone know The Truth then words will not sway him I think, neither kind nor harsh. Using milder tone maynot antagonize (you still question The Truth after all) but some people aren't worth it.

I see idiocy like one Kerim shows daily - Jews rulling the world, homosexuals being abomination, or god giving no to people no more trouble than said people could handle. I'm tired of such shit and see no reason for playing nice. It have no effect.

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The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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19-08-2016, 03:07 PM
RE: A dilemma: How an American could be a real atheist?
(16-08-2016 12:41 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  *Sigh No No, that is not how it works KermiF.

You are the one making all the claims here.

Hence, you are the one who is in the position to present facts. Preferably facts and not opinion.

I am sorry, what I present are facts seen from where I live.
For example, the Iraqi people had no idea what daily terror is (against civilians at random) till they were invaded and their country was occupied in year 2003 by the US system under the pretext to save them from a dictator.
Also the Syrian people didn't imagine that the Iraqi scenario will be repeated against their country till Obama urged the world in March 2011 to save them from a dictator.

If what I say are just personal opinions to you, I wonder what could be your facts!

I know many here are not Americans but most of them, if not all, believe the verses/scenes of the modern bible (displayed on their TV and/or monitors) that are approved by the world's decision makers (most of them live in America).

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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19-08-2016, 03:27 PM
RE: A dilemma: How an American could be a real atheist?
(19-08-2016 03:07 PM)KerimF Wrote:  I am sorry, what I present are facts seen from where I live.

No.
What you present are your biased opinions based on your extremely limited knowledge base and unusual experience.
You think you have facts.
They are not facts.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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20-08-2016, 07:25 AM (This post was last modified: 20-08-2016 07:42 AM by Deltabravo.)
RE: A dilemma: How an American could be a real atheist?
(01-08-2016 06:11 AM)KerimF Wrote:  
(01-08-2016 04:37 AM)jabeady Wrote:  For an atheist, "In god we trust" has no meaning. Personally, I ignore it; others get upset about it. Last I heard, 85% of Americans believe in some sort of God, but our Constitution protects everyone, no matter their faith or lack of faith.

BTW, Christian Americans believe in the "Jewish" god the same way that Muslim Americans, and all Muslims for that matter, believe in the "Jewish" god.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

I expect that an atheist (American or not) likely ignores the "In god we trust" printed on money as long it is his money and valid to buy things with it Wink
But if he will get someday some dollars on which this great statement is removed, he will surely refuse them as being not blessed by God... that doesn't exist Big Grin

BTW, the image of God as presented in Judaism then by Mohammad Al-Kuraishi (a relative to the ruling tribe Kuraish who took over the power in the name of his Allah) are very different from the image presented by the one known as Jesus Christ. But all formal Christians (belonging to formal Churches or Denominations) preferred seeing their God as Jews and Muslims do... The Supernatural King who expects his believers (if not all mankind) to obey his rules in order to avoid his wrath Big Grin

Kerim

Kerim, the U.S. constitution does not refer to the Jewish or Christian God. The USA came into existence during a time when Deism was a driving force in France. You should read about that time period and the relationship between the French and America. Look at this link:
http://www.enlightenmentdeism.com/?page_id=149

Here is a discussion about American founding fathers and deism http://www.enlightenmentdeism.com/?page_id=146

Also Kerim, please read the New testament and you will see that the Christian God is described as the "word" or Logos and is not the same God in substance as the Old Testament God. As children in church we were taught that the Christian God is one of love and that Jesus came to tell us that his father was not a God of retribution. You can't equate Christianity with Judaism. Christianity is a rejection of Judaism in its fundamental tenets.

The motifs on the back of US money is more Egyptian than Christian and many Christians get upset about the symbolism. The U.S. is not a Christian Republic in the way Muslim countries are Islamic Republics. It is a secular country where all religious groups are free to practice whereas in Muslim Countries other religions are banned which is why westerners get upset that Muslims use a double standard and get the benefit of our freedoms but don't treat us with similar respect. http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/n2293.cfm
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20-08-2016, 07:47 AM
RE: A dilemma: How an American could be a real atheist?
(19-08-2016 03:27 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(19-08-2016 03:07 PM)KerimF Wrote:  I am sorry, what I present are facts seen from where I live.

No.
What you present are your biased opinions based on your extremely limited knowledge base and unusual experience.
You think you have facts.
They are not facts.

Kerim , ignore Bucky. He is an idiot.
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20-08-2016, 10:33 AM
RE: A dilemma: How an American could be a real atheist?
At work.

First, again, congratulations to you KerimF! Thumbsup

Your use and posting of/in English is getting better all the time! Hug

Second. ... have now finally seen some small reports about what is happening in your part of the world?

You are indeed being subjected/imposed to a form of hell and my thoughts and wishes go out to you and yours which is sadly all I can currently offer.

Sadcryface
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