A discussion with my father..a rant.
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28-03-2012, 05:12 PM
A discussion with my father..a rant.
Since my father has remarried, he has decided to become a confirmed Lutheran after spending so many decades avoiding religion; it is now a "ritual" that before breakfast not only is there a table prayer but a bible reading plus a reading out of a bible supplement called "Portals of Prayer".

I quietly endure the readings but one morning my fathers wife asked me if I wanted to read out of the supplement to which I politely declined and everything went on as usual.

So anyways..I was taking a walk with my father later that day and at some point he asked me why I did not read out of the supplement book to which I simply replied that I didn't want to. I could have told him that the whole thing sickens me but I'm not that crass.

At any rate he went on to criticize me about my lack of beliefs in general to which I tried to explain that I don't need religion or beliefs in imaginary deities to explain life.
So we went back and forth and at one point he was whining about all the secular "shit" I was reading and basically how "brain shrunken" it is to not believe in anything and to rely only on logic and rationality.
So I tried to tell him that just because one doesn't understand something doesn't mean one should rely on imaginary creatures to explain things; I also explained that no one can prove the existence of an afterlife or a so-called "spirit world" either.

He then made the same cookie cutter comment about how "empty" he felt my life must be because I don't have beliefs.
I just told him that I have every right as an adult, both personally and constitutionally, to choose my own way.
I could have said more but it was apparent that it would be pointless.
He is right now so mired in his precious religion that nothing I could say would mean anything.

ARGH! Parents are so frustrating.

Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return.
To obtain, something of equal value must be lost.
That is Alchemy's first law of Equivalent Exchange.
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28-03-2012, 05:22 PM
RE: A discussion with my father..a rant.
Are you sure that you are the child in this relationship?

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
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28-03-2012, 06:45 PM
RE: A discussion with my father..a rant.
I understand your frustration. I run into the same thing with my father-in-law. And not just the NT but the crazy OT shit as well. I recommend you and your father agree to disagree and to not discuss it again. It's not worth ruining your relationship. My go to phrase when he says a religious point of view is "Hmm, interesting"

.
I wasn't . . . until I was
I am . . . until I'm not
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28-03-2012, 07:16 PM
RE: A discussion with my father..a rant.
Ugh! I feel you, brother. It's a pain in the ass when religiously-inert parents decide that they don't have that much left to live so they'd better make nice with the man upstairs before it's too late. Suddenly they become more christian than Jesus and they expect you to do the same.

I am unable and unwilling to suppress my facial expressions and body language so by now my family knows that I hate their religion with passion. They stopped challenging me because after my 10 years of preparing to become a priest, I know shit about their precious bible. They have no real idea what's in there so all I need to do is throw them a few "gems" and they become very silent. Unless somebody died or somebody really close is getting married I am no longer expected to go to church. If that happens, most of the time during ceremony, I will probably be outside playing with someone's kid, waiting for the action to come out of the "museum".

I don't do blessings, I don't do prayer and if they really want to know what I think about <insert religious topic here> they have to take full responsibility for opening the subject with me.

Once we got that out of the way, yeah, we're doing just fine, all things considered.

Oh, no Hallucinations 4:11 says the 'gilded sheep should be stewed in rat blood' but Morons 5:16 contradicts it. (Chas)

I would never shake a baby unless the recipe requires it.
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29-03-2012, 06:46 AM
RE: A discussion with my father..a rant.
My advice would be to have an honest conversation with him and his wife. Try to keep voices level and try to be as honest as you can. Ask that judgin be excluded from the conversation but rather exploring how the other feels about the topic. Telling you that your life must be empty is judging. Telling him that you don't need to rely on an imaginary being is not quite judging but is insulting. All of you need to try to avoid those things and simply talk about what you believe and what its role in the household will be. Can't he and his wife have their prayer meeting without you? Can't breakfast be about the upcoming day?

You could always choose some of the most ridiculous passages in the bible to read: the one about sending bears to kill children, etc and ask them to explain them. That is a bit confrontational and I would only do that if they choose to force feed their religion on you.

Has your father lost family or friends recently? Is there a bit of mortality sinking in to him which is perhaps the spark for the new interest in religion?
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29-03-2012, 08:30 AM
RE: A discussion with my father..a rant.
Have you considered agreeing to read one book of their choice if they will engage in the same?

It's something I do often with theists to show that I am more then willing to consider their viewpoint if they are willing to listen.
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29-03-2012, 08:39 AM
 
RE: A discussion with my father..a rant.
(29-03-2012 06:46 AM)devilsadvoc8 Wrote:  My advice would be to have an honest conversation with him and his wife. Try to keep voices level and try to be as honest as you can.
This is HUGE. And its a life lesson that most folks simply are not taught.
The LOUDER they (on anyone) may get, the quieter you should get. This works for any face to face confrontation.
We should never let any 'debate' escalate into a shouting match. I always try and repeat what was said to me to show that i am actively listening and calmly reply. If they appear to be 'waiting for me to shut up so they can talk' (NOT really listening), i will calmly ask them to repeat what i just said. Conversation is a 2 way event. If its just ONE person trying to dogmatically share an opinion, then any rational discussion is over...and you should recognize it at that and find something better to do with you time.

D
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29-03-2012, 05:47 PM
RE: A discussion with my father..a rant.
(29-03-2012 08:30 AM)Godless Wrote:  Have you considered agreeing to read one book of their choice if they will engage in the same?

It's something I do often with theists to show that I am more then willing to consider their viewpoint if they are willing to listen.
I did try once but that was a few years ago when I was in a more..."fluffy" frame of mind (was studying wicca a bit).
I checked out a book called "Drawing Down the Moon" and offered to let him read it and he bluntly told me he wasn't interested so I said "Ok". End of story.

Point is I know my fathers mindset, he won't budge until he is hit over the head in the metaphorical sense.
But anyways thanks for all the replies and the understanding.
It is annoying having to be in a household where both people are religious and there is this unspoken idea that I should join in this game too which I refuse.
However I decided that if he should bring the subject up again that I will tell him that I respect his decision to follow his path and I'd appreciate that he do the same for me.

Like I said earlier n another post, my father is very..."impressionable" and easily swayed. He follows something without thinking; at one point he was sort of studying Hinduism and he read this book written by some yogi who claimed who claimed that you can say whatever you want to people no matter how hurtful and if others feel hurt or upset then it is their fault because they "chose" to be hurt.
For awhile he was abrasive in his words until finally my mother had to set him straight.

So as annoying as his behavior is right now, I think that at some point, maybe a few years from now he is going to have another rude awakening.
Right now he thinks that just because one hasn't robbed a bank or killed anyone doesn't make them spiritual or good.

The reason I find his behavior peculiar is because he spent decades extricating himself from religion, especially the one he was forced into as a child. He made a concerted effort to keep religion at a distance, feeling that free thinking is the way but now he feels humanity needs religion and needs to believe in angels, demons and all sorts of rot meanwhile calling my reading material "shit" and referring to reliance on science, rationality and logic as "brain shrunken".

(sighs) Undecided

Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return.
To obtain, something of equal value must be lost.
That is Alchemy's first law of Equivalent Exchange.
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29-03-2012, 05:55 PM
RE: A discussion with my father..a rant.
There is no middle ground.
The Christian is banned from reading "satanic" inspired books on such vile subjects as "Yoga".
This will corrupt the soul - OR - undo the brainwashing. Same difference.

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
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