A few thoughts on life on this planet....(ramblings)
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15-09-2012, 01:46 PM
A few thoughts on life on this planet....(ramblings)
I watched the "one life" BBC documentary late last night and when I ever think about animals or see programmes like that one it allways get me thinking....... Consider

The documentary is nothing new, its recycled parts of other documentaries but here is the trailer anyway if your interested.





Ive tried to cover the subject before in another thread.... but I find it interesting how we see/acknowledge that other creatures are alive and whilst we are not the same species we distance ourselves from them..... when in reality are we any different???

We may have greater brain powers and be way more adaptable to any situation compared to something else.... but is that a blessing or is it a curse..... is this "awareness" or "I" that we all possess.... this imagination, is it a good thing in the scale of things??? It may have "improved" our lives to some degree but on the flipside the cost to this is the mostly the enviroment and everything contained within it.

If we somehow went back in evoloution to our understanding of cavemen.... I think we would probably share more with the planet than what we do now.

I suppose a way I see it is our actions are further having more consequence as time goes on the planet.... we pollute, we kill, we change the habitats of many creatures, we wipe them out (accidentally you could say, but they are still extinct nevertheless)

Now on the cold side of my understanding..... the part that trys to rid itself of limiting human perceptions (mostly those of good/bad).... the part that trys to observe from a bigger perspective.... doensnt really see anything as being out of the ordinary..... every action simply has a reaction and we do these things because its the way we are evolving and allways has been since we were in quantum soup. That there is no "bigger plan" or reason for life other than just anarchic happenings caused from whatever (if anything) started it all off (big bang etc etc)

I dunno.... just a few ramblings and thoughts..... not really giving this any direction to go in unless people wanna take it there.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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15-09-2012, 02:11 PM
RE: A few thoughts on life on this planet....(ramblings)
A few more thoughts.

We percieve ourelves as a species above all others.... that is we can squish an ant and think nothing of it.... it has no impact on our lives whatsoever.

This same thinking and lack of respect for life can be said for ourselves and also to every other animal on the planet..... yet how do we KNOW that whatever creature it is we are harming is not having an EQUAL perception of life and feelings like we are.

We are limited by being what we are.... we know no different.... everything we see, touch, hear and experience is what we call life.... and the same could be said for every creature. So whilst a cow may not be able to discuss relativity with einstein and spends most of its days digesting plantlife.... how do we know that its experience of fear is any different to ours???

Society can make a fuss saying..... "Its just a cat"...."Its just a lion".... "Its just a species" and again we disrespect them for what they are.... liviing creatures that have no choice in life, that seek contenment through varying parameters, that wish to produce.... and then die.

Exactly the same as us human beings..... metaphorically I see no difference.

The colder, harder side of my thinking sees this as irrelevant..... that If I am to consider all "life" in its varying aspects then I much also consider deadly viruses with as much respect and right to exist as mine..... as that is doing just exactly the same as everything else, living and multiplying.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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15-09-2012, 02:11 PM
RE: A few thoughts on life on this planet....(ramblings)
(15-09-2012 01:46 PM)bemore Wrote:  I watched the "one life" BBC documentary late last night and when I ever think about animals or see programmes like that one it allways get me thinking....... Consider

The documentary is nothing new, its recycled parts of other documentaries but here is the trailer anyway if your interested.





Ive tried to cover the subject before in another thread.... but I find it interesting how we see/acknowledge that other creatures are alive and whilst we are not the same species we distance ourselves from them..... when in reality are we any different???

We may have greater brain powers and be way more adaptable to any situation compared to something else.... but is that a blessing or is it a curse..... is this "awareness" or "I" that we all possess.... this imagination, is it a good thing in the scale of things??? It may have "improved" our lives to some degree but on the flipside the cost to this is the mostly the enviroment and everything contained within it.

If we somehow went back in evoloution to our understanding of cavemen.... I think we would probably share more with the planet than what we do now.

I suppose a way I see it is our actions are further having more consequence as time goes on the planet.... we pollute, we kill, we change the habitats of many creatures, we wipe them out (accidentally you could say, but they are still extinct nevertheless)

Now on the cold side of my understanding..... the part that trys to rid itself of limiting human perceptions (mostly those of good/bad).... the part that trys to observe from a bigger perspective.... doensnt really see anything as being out of the ordinary..... every action simply has a reaction and we do these things because its the way we are evolving and allways has been since we were in quantum soup. That there is no "bigger plan" or reason for life other than just anarchic happenings caused from whatever (if anything) started it all off (big bang etc etc)

I dunno.... just a few ramblings and thoughts..... not really giving this any direction to go in unless people wanna take it there.

We are the only species that understands evolution, and that gives us the ability to do something about it.

Not to mention that we also are the only species to have really fabulous shoes. Yes

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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15-09-2012, 06:47 PM
RE: A few thoughts on life on this planet....(ramblings)
(15-09-2012 02:11 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(15-09-2012 01:46 PM)bemore Wrote:  I watched the "one life" BBC documentary late last night and when I ever think about animals or see programmes like that one it allways get me thinking....... Consider

The documentary is nothing new, its recycled parts of other documentaries but here is the trailer anyway if your interested.





Ive tried to cover the subject before in another thread.... but I find it interesting how we see/acknowledge that other creatures are alive and whilst we are not the same species we distance ourselves from them..... when in reality are we any different???

We may have greater brain powers and be way more adaptable to any situation compared to something else.... but is that a blessing or is it a curse..... is this "awareness" or "I" that we all possess.... this imagination, is it a good thing in the scale of things??? It may have "improved" our lives to some degree but on the flipside the cost to this is the mostly the enviroment and everything contained within it.

If we somehow went back in evoloution to our understanding of cavemen.... I think we would probably share more with the planet than what we do now.

I suppose a way I see it is our actions are further having more consequence as time goes on the planet.... we pollute, we kill, we change the habitats of many creatures, we wipe them out (accidentally you could say, but they are still extinct nevertheless)

Now on the cold side of my understanding..... the part that trys to rid itself of limiting human perceptions (mostly those of good/bad).... the part that trys to observe from a bigger perspective.... doensnt really see anything as being out of the ordinary..... every action simply has a reaction and we do these things because its the way we are evolving and allways has been since we were in quantum soup. That there is no "bigger plan" or reason for life other than just anarchic happenings caused from whatever (if anything) started it all off (big bang etc etc)

I dunno.... just a few ramblings and thoughts..... not really giving this any direction to go in unless people wanna take it there.

We are the only species that understands evolution, and that gives us the ability to do something about it.

Not to mention that we also are the only species to have really fabulous shoes. Yes

We are the only species that thinks we understand evolution.

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15-09-2012, 07:45 PM
RE: A few thoughts on life on this planet....(ramblings)
Love is that we suffer for life, but don't get crazy.

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16-09-2012, 03:02 AM
RE: A few thoughts on life on this planet....(ramblings)
The latter history of human being on this planet is largely a history of parasitism: geological (mining, fossil fuels), plant life (deforestation, herbicides), all other animal life (abuse, insecticides, disregard). The list goes on.
I knew a spider once (a large Golden Weave, some call her a Banana Spider). She took up her space at my front door, made her egg sack and took nothing. She died when she consumed mosquitoes that had been arial sprayed in the Southeast Texas county I lived in. I took her to an environmental scientist. Directly she was immune to the mosquito poison, but indirectly, by eating the mosquito she became vulnerable to the poision. It took her a long time to die, much longer than the mosquito.
At some point, along came a hungry bird. . ., and then I wondered about me.

I suppose I am asking a couple of questions here about what I think is the larger issue.
Why isn't life and this planet seen as important as any human being, outside of the services life and this planet yields?
And, why are we seen as the only authors?
Almost all god believers believe that God made the planet as use for the ultimate creation-humans. However, we don't believe that. Something I read in a Steven King book (can't remember the title), some alien children held human beings captive in a bubble set over an entire town. At the end, the aliens let them live because, it was concluded that they should "let them have their little lives."
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16-09-2012, 10:46 AM
RE: A few thoughts on life on this planet....(ramblings)
(16-09-2012 03:02 AM)depat Wrote:  The latter history of human being on this planet is largely a history of parasitism: geological (mining, fossil fuels), plant life (deforestation, herbicides), all other animal life (abuse, insecticides, disregard). The list goes on.
I knew a spider once (a large Golden Weave, some call her a Banana Spider). She took up her space at my front door, made her egg sack and took nothing. She died when she consumed mosquitoes that had been arial sprayed in the Southeast Texas county I lived in. I took her to an environmental scientist. Directly she was immune to the mosquito poison, but indirectly, by eating the mosquito she became vulnerable to the poision. It took her a long time to die, much longer than the mosquito.
At some point, along came a hungry bird. . ., and then I wondered about me.

I suppose I am asking a couple of questions here about what I think is the larger issue.
Why isn't life and this planet seen as important as any human being, outside of the services life and this planet yields?
And, why are we seen as the only authors?
Almost all god believers believe that God made the planet as use for the ultimate creation-humans. However, we don't believe that. Something I read in a Steven King book (can't remember the title), some alien children held human beings captive in a bubble set over an entire town. At the end, the aliens let them live because, it was concluded that they should "let them have their little lives."

Good post Big Grin

I agree tottally with you that we have become parasitic..... we are going against the very thing that supports and sustains us which is nature.

(maybe in our quests to become "godlike")

Our whole ecosystem has a sort of balance.... everything has its place and complete removal/extinction of something can have huge massive ripples across the whole board. We as a race are fully aware of this (mis/understanding evolution like Chas and Logica have mentioned) yet this doesnt stop us. Our focus has shifted from what is basicly important (food, water and sustainability) and we seek things that nature simply cannot provide.

Whilst we may be evolving to a certain degree to understand the very nature of our existence..... I think it is futile as we are basicly de-evolving from life itself in our quest to do so.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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16-09-2012, 12:05 PM
RE: A few thoughts on life on this planet....(ramblings)
(15-09-2012 01:46 PM)bemore Wrote:  I suppose a way I see it is our actions are further having more consequence as time goes on the planet.... we pollute, we kill, we change the habitats of many creatures, we wipe them out (accidentally you could say, but they are still extinct nevertheless)

Now on the cold side of my understanding.....

Using the "cold side of my understanding" (I don't have a warm side) some years ago (I think I was in my teens) when contemplating what you called the quantum soup, I wondered whether the micro-whatevers considered that by merging and acquiring (teaming up with (symbiosis) or consuming the other micro-whatevers) they realised that by shitting out oxygen they were turning the sky blue and that they were shaping the environment for future generations so that only oxygen consumers/producers would flourish (I was assuming that earlier there had been only hydrogen consumers/producers).

I think it was then that I realised that we are a continuum of that process and I decided that we're no more than advanced plant life that stretches towards a light/heat source trigger-response, trigger response.

I started to wonder if the word "life" meant anything.

Since then and recently having seen the modern thinking regarding free-will (or lack of) and seeing a Ted-talk about why we have developed much more sophisticated brains (cos we need to be mobile and throw things) I have concluded that life is an illusion. We are highly evolved and mobile plants / combinations of micro-sytems.

This leads to a discussion (currently happening in my head) about holism vs reductionism.

I'll get back to you when I have resolved that debate.

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16-09-2012, 12:56 PM
RE: A few thoughts on life on this planet....(ramblings)
(16-09-2012 10:46 AM)bemore Wrote:  
(16-09-2012 03:02 AM)depat Wrote:  The latter history of human being on this planet is largely a history of parasitism: geological (mining, fossil fuels), plant life (deforestation, herbicides), all other animal life (abuse, insecticides, disregard). The list goes on.
I knew a spider once (a large Golden Weave, some call her a Banana Spider). She took up her space at my front door, made her egg sack and took nothing. She died when she consumed mosquitoes that had been arial sprayed in the Southeast Texas county I lived in. I took her to an environmental scientist. Directly she was immune to the mosquito poison, but indirectly, by eating the mosquito she became vulnerable to the poision. It took her a long time to die, much longer than the mosquito.
At some point, along came a hungry bird. . ., and then I wondered about me.

I suppose I am asking a couple of questions here about what I think is the larger issue.
Why isn't life and this planet seen as important as any human being, outside of the services life and this planet yields?
And, why are we seen as the only authors?
Almost all god believers believe that God made the planet as use for the ultimate creation-humans. However, we don't believe that. Something I read in a Steven King book (can't remember the title), some alien children held human beings captive in a bubble set over an entire town. At the end, the aliens let them live because, it was concluded that they should "let them have their little lives."

Good post Big Grin

I agree tottally with you that we have become parasitic..... we are going against the very thing that supports and sustains us which is nature.

(maybe in our quests to become "godlike")

Our whole ecosystem has a sort of balance.... everything has its place and complete removal/extinction of something can have huge massive ripples across the whole board. We as a race are fully aware of this (mis/understanding evolution like Chas and Logica have mentioned) yet this doesnt stop us. Our focus has shifted from what is basicly important (food, water and sustainability) and we seek things that nature simply cannot provide.

Whilst we may be evolving to a certain degree to understand the very nature of our existence..... I think it is futile as we are basicly de-evolving from life itself in our quest to do so.

On a practical level, those who understand the science and interconnectedness of systems are not the ones wielding the destructive power.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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16-09-2012, 01:33 PM
RE: A few thoughts on life on this planet....(ramblings)
(15-09-2012 02:11 PM)bemore Wrote:  So whilst a cow may not be able to discuss relativity with einstein and spends most of its days digesting plant life.... how do we know that its experience of fear is any different to ours???

It's not. But of course, our "traditional" constructs would have us think so. Thinking is believing, right? Some have decided to confuse thought with belief - it just makes things a lot easier. Sheesh... who wants to take care of the whole planet? Dodgy

The experience of fear is no different for a human that it is for a cow. It's just that since we are not cows, we don't know a cow to be fearful. We construct fallacies about many things, decide they are true (for all), and call them traditions... or beliefs, customs, etc.,. maybe even religions.

We know fear, but in order to do what we do with cows, we have to believe they do not know fear - at least not in the same way. Reason needs to be either ejected from the equation or altered... and since we're "thinking creatures" who depend on reason, we alter it.

Once the reasoning of "not like us" is added to belief, it becomes fused and confused with thinking. This becomes accepted, traditional thinking, a construct which clearly tips the scales in favor of our understanding. It becomes a reasoned belief that cows don't know fear ... not like us, anyway. We are at once distanced from and superior to the rest of the planet - and reasonably so.

So, it really is thinking - rational thought - clear logic - which could alter the trajectory of the species human. As well, alteration of this single, affecting species could redirect planetary populations and systems. And we know this, because there is precedent.

Humans might be better off if they began getting used to the idea that they will die soon. And yet, so many cling to irrational notions of eternal life. Go figure. Shy

Sorry, I guess I'm rambling, too. And I'm not even drinking! Tongue

I think in the end, I just feel like I'm a secular person who has a skeptical eye toward any extraordinary claim, carefully examining any extraordinary evidence before jumping to conclusions. ~ Eric ~ My friend ... who figured it out.
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