A formal Christian does not believe his god can be perfect
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26-08-2016, 09:30 AM
RE: A formal Christian does not believe his god can be perfect
see you later... Bye

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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26-08-2016, 10:42 AM
RE: A formal Christian does not believe his god can be perfect
(26-08-2016 09:30 AM)KerimF Wrote:  
(25-08-2016 07:14 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  So, since you dont accept the opinion of experts (scientists) on any given subject,
please, oh wise man
what s your opinion about extraterrestrial life? I am talking about your skills in cosmology here. Do do have studied cosmology to give me an answer, correct?
And if some scientists are in disagreement with you on this, please explain why they are all wrong. dont hesitate to write long elaborate reviews, i will take time to read them.

Testing your skills in paleonthology: Did dinosaurs have feathers? What do you think? Regarding some of them there was even the question of the colour of their feathers. What do you think was the colour of their feathers? And why of course.

Vaccination: There is a big discussion in the US public about vaccination. What is your personal opinion as a qualified evolutionary biologist about this issue? Please explain the evolutionary background to me oh wise man

Ok, how about your skills in meterology/climate? What do you think of global warming, do you think its is true or a conspiracy? How does climate work anyway, can you explain it to me please oh wise man?

What about sending probes to newly discovered exoplantes around stars. Do you think there is life on Europa, Enceladus or Alpha Centauri? Please tell me, oh wise man.

You are qualified to have an opinion on all these scientific subjects, arent you, oh wise man?

Being wise is like being perfect... both are relative matters as everything else in the universe.

This explains why each person is given a brilliant brain so he can be wise of what he is interested in and therefore being perfect of what he is supposed to be.

So instead of looking for the existence of an extra-terrestrial life, I was interested in discovering the 'real' terrestrial life instead Wink

And instead of searching about dinosaurs, I preferred observing the present living things, mainly the human beings among whom I have to live Wink

About medical discussions (as vaccination, you mentioned), I had to explore a much more important subject which could be titled 'the real story behind worldwide propaganda of AIDS'.

Finally, as it is good for you to be wise about things you are interested in (please don't tell me you don't have a healthy human brain), I did my best to have all the knowledge that interests me and is useful in my daily life.
Yes, I don't like interfering in other's life. After all, sane mature persons have all the necessary tools... as I have, if not more Wink

Kerim

So you are claiming to be "the wisest man", because you are so clever to not trust anybody (particularly not evil scientists participating in global conspiracies) or anything but your own, superior, infallible logic. But when asked about some pretty simple scientific topics (crosschecking if what you -try to- do matches if what you say), you refuse to respond in any meaningful way or adress the topics at all.

Mhm, what should one think about that?

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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26-08-2016, 11:37 AM
RE: A formal Christian does not believe his god can be perfect
(26-08-2016 07:26 AM)KerimF Wrote:  
(25-08-2016 10:48 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  Predicting that thread made by you will be stupid is akin to "predicting" that sun will rise tomorrow.

Wysłane z mojego 6045K przy użyciu Tapatalka

You are right.

And no one can deny that you are real brave for bearing my stupidity for that long. Thank you.

Kerim

No one can deny that you are ignorant conspiracy nut being convinced of having all the answers.

As for your stupidity it is no burden. I forget about it when I'm logging out or even sooner.



Wysłane z mojego 6045K przy użyciu Tapatalka

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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27-08-2016, 08:39 AM
RE: A formal Christian does not believe his god can be perfect
I'm guessing that due to the onslaught of science and logic, poor old Kerim's left the building.

We should... uh... pray that it's permanent. Tongue

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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27-08-2016, 08:50 AM
RE: A formal Christian does not believe his god can be perfect
Well... maybe not.

From previous posts KerimF, sadly, lives in or near a major war torn area in Syria, Sad

I am, as always, hoping the best for them.
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28-08-2016, 02:41 PM
RE: A formal Christian does not believe his god can be perfect
(26-08-2016 06:51 AM)KerimF Wrote:  
(23-08-2016 11:30 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  I wonder if Kerim "gets" any of this, or anything at all.

My own view of this issue is that we in the West are sleepwalking into a very dangerous situation and it's playing itself out almost daily around the world.

I think there was some kind of sense that if we in the West supported groups like the Muslim Brotherhood and the Turkish Gulenist movement and other Islamic groups, then we would be ok.

The reasoning seems to me to go along the lines that, first, all region is peaceful. After all, Christains are always talking about "love they neighbour" etc. So, we think, religions must be good and the problem is that too many people are losing their religion and, surely, if we enlist the help of religious groups, the world will be a better place.

What we don't understand is that fundamentalist Christianity and Islam are complete opposites of each other. Fundamentalist Christians go back to the New Testament and read "do unto others" and "blessed are the meek" and similar exhortations and the "goodness" of it all sends them into raptures and they then go around trying to get people to love each other.

Fundamentalist Muslims go back to the Koran which tells them that after Ramadan, they should kill non-believers who aren't prepared to pay a tax or convert, and to kill other people who don't want to continue following this belief system. It tells them to kill homosexuals and to cut off people's hands and limbs for committing thefts out of poverty.

With the declining interest and appreciation of history in favor of watching "Jersey Shores", people now don't understand that religious freedoms were fought for in order to stop religion suppressing free thought of individuals. Freedom of religion was not intended to protect religions which suppress free thought altogether.

I wonder if Kerim "gets" any of this, or anything at all.

The one saving grace of all this is the internet and the fact that individuals can now get access to different ideas and cultures without their Immam breathing down their necks, and that the little "prayer rooms" in airports and other public buildings are pretty much empty here. Recently, a lady lawyer took five Mosques go court got an injunction against them from blasting out the call to prayer at 5 am every morning because it was making her too tired to work.

I was standing talking to a care mechanic the other day and the call to prayer came on over a loudspeaker (not even attached to a Mosque). We couldn't hear each other speak and he rolled his eyes in disgust. You tune it out, it's like white noise, no one goes to Mosque unless they are a demented male teenager with a grudge and nothing else to do. They take off their shoes, wander into a bare, stark, empty building and bend over several times while someone chants something repetetively, or doesn't. Either way, they then leave and think they are ok with Allah, for some reason. Like I say, it's like children and Santa and maybe they are thinking of the seventy two wide eyed virgins they're going to get in heaven. Who knows, who cares... It's a form of mental illness.

Please don't worry, Kerim (67 years) got already all what you kindly presented so far and much more.

Come to the south of Syria and you will see clearly how the fanatic radical Jewish army and the fanatic radical Islamist groups are working together, like real good brothers do, against the Syrian people. And this is natural, because the today's Israel state (created in year 1948) and Al-Qaeda state (known lately as ISIS) have the same creators, hence the same big earthly bosses.
In brief, anytime you see a fanatic radical believer (even Christian), you can be sure he is serving, with or without his knowledge, the American Dream; I mean the Dream of the American Top Decision-Makers, not of the American people of course.

We are just at the beginning of the World Terror War that was introduced with a great success in front of the entire world on 9/11/2001. This needed sacrificing just a few thousands of American citizens in NYC to replace 'Communism' with 'Terror of Islam' (thanks to the CIA Qaeda to cover up this perfect crime). Then Bush junior had to sacrifice more thousands among his American troops in Iraq between year 2003 and 2010. During this period, about half a million kids were raised in training bases (with the knowledge of all intelligences, including the Russian one) to play, when adults, the today's Islamist terrorists in the international endless series 'War on Terror'.

By the way, if you look at Al-Qaeda' flag (it is the same for any armed Islamist group), you will surely see on it the common signature that the CIA imposed on all its 9/11 mercenaries (lately by millions after 15 years... though most of them are in sleep mode now and will be activated in the coming episodes of the War on Terror series; in Europe... China... etc.). This new common signature was never used by today's Muslims in the world. It says (written vertically in a white circle using 3 Arabic words): "Allah is the Messenger of Mohammad". Yes, it is a clear blasphemy against Allah, Islam and Muslims Wink But who cares Big Grin The powerful/rich people (Muslim or not) get profits from spreading terror and the common ones (the main targets of the modern Terror) have no voice even in America; unless barking, as I do here, may have any effect to stop the long World Terror War against civilians Big Grin

Kerim


Kerim, the problem with your analysis is that you don't have a clue about the USA, its culture or people.

There's no "false flag" issue with the WTC attack. Yes, the US embassy in Saudi Arabia may have fast tracked visas for the WTC bombers but they did so out of total ignorance about what Islam is. The US, at the time of the Iraq invasion had absolutely no intelligence machinery in the Middle East. They stupidly began relying on Arab/Muslim groups to fill a gap, had created Al-Quaeda to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan.

Americans are very religious and somehow got the idea that being a "fundamentalist" Muslim was something like being a Quaker. They didn't realize that Islam is nothing but a Mafia style death cult in which people are indoctrinated from birth. Their proxies took up offers to go to the US to help the US fight Middle Eastern wars but they never deviated from their own ideology which was bent on destruction of the Great Satan, America.

You've bought into your own people's twisted view of the US. 99.% percent of Americans don't give a flying f.ck about Islam, the Middle East or anything outside the USA. They just want to enjoy their lives in peace, away from twisted, moronic ideologies like the one which has bent your own mind into some kind of paranoic pretzel.

You need to press a reset button. I know, read the New Testament, and Ralph Ellis. That will open your mind! Wink
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30-08-2016, 09:50 PM
RE: A formal Christian does not believe his god can be perfect
(28-08-2016 02:41 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  Kerim, the problem with your analysis is that you don't have a clue about the USA, its culture or people...

... 99.9% percent of Americans don't give a flying f.ck about Islam, the Middle East or anything outside the USA. They just want to enjoy their lives in peace, away from twisted, moronic ideologies like the one which has bent your own mind into some kind of paranoic pretzel.

Exactly the same for Australia. The entire Middle East is a shit-hole—apart from numerous historically significant sites—which are gradually and ignorantly getting destroyed/degraded by these Islamic camel jockeys. And once we (globally) start fully utilizing solar/wind/tidal/battery power sources, they can all go fuck themselves as far as I'm concerned.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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31-08-2016, 12:24 AM
RE: A formal Christian does not believe his god can be perfect
If you see that man creates god a Ludwig Feuerbach says, then you only have to look at the people of the Middle East to see why their religion and their god is a violent, woman-hating psychopath. In societies without structure and culture, thugs rise to the top, and then they make up a god who is like them and justifies their actions and attitudes. That's what you get with Islam because it is a post-exodus ( of proto-Europeans) religion of the tent-dwellers who were left behind when the "great" civilizations of the Near and Middle East collapsed and Europe emerged as the center of world civilization and trade.

It's funny that Kerim would think that the Christian god can't be perfect. I can't even figure out what he means by this. So, Allah is perfect? Why, because he encourages people to kill non-believers if they don't subject themselves to a tax or convert? Or because his followers get 72 virgins when they go to heaven? That's perfection?

Muslim men want to shave their pubes, kill someone they hate and then shag all day. Their perfect god says "shave your pubes, kill infidels and then shag all day".Consider
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31-08-2016, 12:39 AM
RE: A formal Christian does not believe his god can be perfect
Feuerbach, Wiki:

In part I of his book Feuerbach developed what he calls the "true or anthropological essence of religion." Treating of God in his various aspects "as a being of the understanding," "as a moral being or law," "as love" and so on. Feuerbach talks of how humankind is equally a conscious being, more so than God because humans have placed upon God the ability of understanding. Humans contemplate many things and in doing so they become acquainted with themselves. Feuerbach shows that in every aspect God corresponds to some feature or need of human nature. As he states,

"In the consciousness of the infinite, the conscious subject has for his object the infinity of his own nature."

Instead, Feuerbach concludes, "If man is to find contentment in God," he claims, "he must find himself in God."

Thus God is nothing else than human: he is, so to speak, the outward projection of a human's inward nature. This projection is dubbed as a chimera by Feuerbach, that God and the idea of a higher being is dependent upon the aspect of benevolence. Feuerbach states that, “a God who is not benevolent, not just, not wise, is no God,” and continues to say that qualities are not suddenly denoted as divine because of their godly association. The qualities themselves are divine therefore making God divine, indicating that humans are capable of understanding and applying meanings of divinity to religion and not that religion makes a human divine.

The force of this attraction to religion though, giving divinity to a figure like God, is explained by Feuerbach as God is a being that acts throughout humans in all forms. God, “is the principle of [man's] salvation, of [man's] good dispositions and actions, consequently [man's] own good principle and nature.” It appeals to humankind to give qualities to the idol of their religion because without these qualities a figure such as God would become merely an object, its importance would become obsolete, there would no longer be a feeling of an existence for God. Therefore, Feuerbach says, when humans remove all qualities from God, “God is no longer anything more to him than a negative being.” Additionally, because humans are imaginative, God is given traits and there holds the appeal. God is a part of a human through the invention of a God. Equally though, humans are repulsed by God because, “God alone is the being who acts of himself.”

In part 2 he discusses the "false or theological essence of religion," i.e. the view which regards God as having a separate existence over against humankind. Hence arise various mistaken beliefs, such as the belief in revelation which he believes not only injures the moral sense, but also "poisons, nay destroys, the divinest feeling in man, the sense of truth," and the belief in sacraments such as the Lord's Supper, which is to him a piece of religious materialism of which "the necessary consequences are superstition and immorality."

A caustic criticism of Feuerbach was delivered in 1844 by Max Stirner. In his book Der Einzige und sein Eigentum (The Ego and His Own), he attacked Feuerbach as inconsistent in his atheism. The pertinent portions of the books, Feuerbach's reply, and Stirner's counter-reply form an instructive polemics.


So, for Kerim: Man creates god as perfect to reflect the idea of perfection so the Christian god is no different from any other god. If Christians understand the idea of perfection, they see their god as perfect. Although, if one sees a god as being perfect if he doesn't advocate terrorism of innocent non-believers, then maybe he isn't perfect for Muslims.
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31-08-2016, 12:52 AM (This post was last modified: 01-09-2016 12:30 AM by Deltabravo.)
RE: A formal Christian does not believe his god can be perfect
As atheists, we say that Islam was created by men, and not by god. Most atheists would say that it is highly improbably, also, that Mohammed had anything to do with writing the Koran. This means, logically, that Islam is a complete fraud and a lie.

The logical consequence of this is that the inventors of Islam were people who understood what Feuerbach was saying in that they were creating a false religion for political reasons. They saw the power of ideas and knew they could make a god who reflected the culture of the people the religion was aimed at.

That makes Islam a manifesto and it is interesting that Feuerbach's method was examined by Karl Marx who had similar views and took man's striving for freedom from oppression by feudalism and capitalism and turned it into a quasi-religious movement. He even wrote on Feuerbach and took his ideas forward, turning them on their heads. He took dialectical Hegelian philosophy and made it into dialectical materiallism, and communism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theses_on_Feuerbach

Islam is just an early revolutionary political manifesto, which is why we have to wake up and see it for what it is. If it is allowed to flourish unchecked, it is designed to "liberate" us from the values of western civilization that we cherish and which Muslims hate, or are taught to hate by their Imams. While, at the same time, they all adopt western ideas, drive expensive cars, drink alcohol, smoke, don't prey to their own god. etc etc..

Islam has moved very quickly from an Arab spring to a very hot summer and is now in its "fall" before entering a winter out of which, hopefully, it will never emerge.

Once people realize this is a religion of hatred, based on a politically motivated Middle East revolution against Western ideas in general, then perhaps we can see it as the Koran as the hate literature it is and it can be dealt with that way, and not given the nod by dopey politicians who just want to look "liberal" by allowing an "ultra-conservative" religion to prosper and destroy the very notion of liberalism.
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