A formal Christian does not believe his god can be perfect
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22-08-2016, 11:35 PM
RE: A formal Christian does not believe his god can be perfect
(20-08-2016 03:01 AM)SYZ Wrote:  
(19-08-2016 02:22 PM)KerimF Wrote:  Conclusion, a formal Christian ignores his god more than an atheist does.

You still don't get it do you? Atheists do NOT "ignore" gods. Rather, we state unequivocally that there is no evidence that supports the existence of God or gods. One cannot ignore something that does not exist.

Sorry, as long a person cannot define, for himself in the least, what the word 'god' does mean to him, I can't imagine on which logical basis he can talk about god's existence!... about the existence of an undefined thing, called god!

Kerim

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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22-08-2016, 11:43 PM
RE: A formal Christian does not believe his god can be perfect
(19-08-2016 11:32 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  
(19-08-2016 02:22 PM)KerimF Wrote:  A formal Christian is a person who sees himself belonging to an organized Christian group; as a denomination or alike.

A formal Christian agrees or was taught that Jesus Christ is god.

At the same time, a formal Christian is not supposed to consider the teachings of Jesus as being perfect. In other words, for a formal Christian, the divine teachings of Jesus are imperfect; they cannot answer (logically) all important questions about life and the reality of the world that a man ‘may’ need to know/discover. Therefore, a formal Christian equates all imperfect teachings of prophets (besides other men known as saints, apostles and disciples) to the teachings of Jesus who is supposed to be his god; his Creator.

Conclusion, a formal Christian ignores his god more than an atheist does.

It's nice to see that you're better than all those other Christians. Their deficiencies likely stem from being Scotsmen.

Quote:In fact, believing that a god cannot be perfect is much worse than saying “god doesn’t exist”.

And logically necessary. Perfection is unchanging. Incapable of acting or being acted upon. A pitiful trap for a deity.

You raised an interesting point.
To me in the least, perfection is about changing to a better state and to no limit.

Also, a real (practical) perfection, for humans, is relative, not absolute; as all other perceived things are.

In other words, something is said perfect, at a certain time, if there is nothing equivalent to it and better than it in some aspects.

Kerim

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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22-08-2016, 11:47 PM
RE: A formal Christian does not believe his god can be perfect
(19-08-2016 10:28 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(19-08-2016 03:16 PM)KerimF Wrote:  Sorry, it seems you missed a previous post of mine on which I said that soon after rising this subject in a Christian forum, I was banned permanently Big Grin

We atheists are much more tolerant and open-minded than Christians, however not so open-minded that our brains fall out, something you may want to protect yourself against. From the looks of it, it may already be too late for that.

Was it about you, me or in general? Huh

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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22-08-2016, 11:55 PM
RE: A formal Christian does not believe his god can be perfect
(19-08-2016 09:33 PM)Dark Wanderer Wrote:  
(19-08-2016 03:16 PM)KerimF Wrote:  Sorry, it seems you missed a previous post of mine on which I said that soon after rising this subject in a Christian forum, I was banned permanently Big Grin

Kerim

Maybe you should take that as a hint that theists are generally close minded morons, and won't tolerate dissenting opinion in their chosen flavor of sky daddy.

This is why I decided to join an atheist forum to find out if things are better in this respect.

But being close or open minded will be discovered better when I will start the thread of the big show Big Grin

Kerim

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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23-08-2016, 12:03 AM
RE: A formal Christian does not believe his god can be perfect
(19-08-2016 08:25 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(19-08-2016 03:12 PM)KerimF Wrote:  Of course it should be stupid to you, otherwise how could you convince yourself being a smart guy... smarter than me in the least Tongue

Kerim

Being smarter than you it's nothing to be proud about if one left kindergarten behind.



Wysłane z mojego 6045K przy użyciu Tapatalka

At least you predicted something (that my next thread had to be stupid) and it happened... to you in the least.

Kerim

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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23-08-2016, 12:06 AM
RE: A formal Christian does not believe his god can be perfect
(19-08-2016 06:50 PM)Fireball Wrote:  
(19-08-2016 02:22 PM)KerimF Wrote:  A formal Christian is a person who sees himself belonging to an organized Christian group; as a denomination or alike.

A formal Christian agrees or was taught that Jesus Christ is god.

At the same time, a formal Christian is not supposed to consider the teachings of Jesus as being perfect. In other words, for a formal Christian, the divine teachings of Jesus are imperfect; they cannot answer (logically) all important questions about life and the reality of the world that a man ‘may’ need to know/discover. Therefore, a formal Christian equates all imperfect teachings of prophets (besides other men known as saints, apostles and disciples) to the teachings of Jesus who is supposed to be his god; his Creator.

Conclusion, a formal Christian ignores his god more than an atheist does.

In fact, believing that a god cannot be perfect is much worse than saying “god doesn’t exist”.

Kerim

How is it that you made it through puberty? A bunch of "formal automobile drivers" must have been pretty attentive when you were wandering around in the street.

Yes, there are even formal atheists as well Big Grin

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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23-08-2016, 12:15 AM
RE: A formal Christian does not believe his god can be perfect
(19-08-2016 03:43 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Formal Christian.

[Image: mormonx-large.jpg]

Informal Christian.

[Image: men-trends-shorts-vest.jpg]

Nice pictures.

For instance, I am afraid that what I meant by formal here is not the opposite of informal Wink

This will likely be clarified on another thread. But you don't have to wait for it... It will be surely as stupid as all my other ones are Big Grin

Kerim

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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23-08-2016, 12:30 AM (This post was last modified: 23-08-2016 12:33 AM by KerimF.)
RE: A formal Christian does not believe his god can be perfect
(19-08-2016 03:46 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  I guess as an atheist it doesn't matter what I say but I did want to point out the humor in saying logically a "formal Christian" can't believe everything Jesus taught is correct. Just the idea that a Christian is using logic in this way and doesn't take it one step further and ask "Why should I even care what this Jesus guy said anyway? Is there even any proof he was a so called God? Besides the writings in this book that is filled with illogical facts, fallacies and myths?" Faith is what is required to believe Jesus was one third of a God that created everything, faith is certainly what they they would use to decipher his teachings, not logic.

You raised a very interesting subject.
Indeed, a formal Christian (as any other formal believer) should believe blindly (its modern expression is "based on faith") whatever the representatives of his god (deity) approve as being the truth and nothing but the truth.

Yes, a 'scientific' man of reason (as I am) cannot be a formal believer... as a theist or atheist; I mean by the formal atheist, the one who doesn't have yet a clear definition of 'god' (any god, offered on the world's table) while he is very sure that his undefined god cannot exist!

Kerim

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-08-2016, 01:00 AM
RE: A formal Christian does not believe his god can be perfect
(22-08-2016 11:35 PM)KerimF Wrote:  Sorry, as long a person cannot define, for himself in the least, what the word 'god' does mean to him, I can't imagine on which logical basis he can talk about god's existence!... about the existence of an undefined thing, called god!

I define the word "god" in precisely the same way as I define the word "unicorn" Kerim.

Both words describe mythical, make-believe entities that exist solely in a person's imagination—with no viable evidence proving they exist, or have ever existed. It's a nonsense to claim that an atheist cannot define what the word "god" means to him—I just did.

And while we're at it, I wonder how you can explain the presence of unicorns in your bible?

Isaiah 34:7 —"And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness."

Christian apologists maintain that the the original Hebrew word re’em means oxen, but the critical "and" in Isaiah (above) disproves that.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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23-08-2016, 01:42 AM
RE: A formal Christian does not believe his god can be perfect
(23-08-2016 12:06 AM)KerimF Wrote:  Yes, there are even formal atheists as well Big Grin

Nope. There is no such thing as a "formal" atheist. Formal is defined as observant of conventional requirements of behavior, procedure, or ceremony.
Atheists—unlike the religious—obviously cannot be described with any of these terms.

It's more than obvious you have little idea of what it means to describe oneself as an atheist—possibly because you're trying to use the same parameters and terms of reference that you use to define your religion. Atheism is a purely abstract thing, or simply just a state of mind. It's no more significant than saying "I'm happy" or "I'm in love" or "I'm anxious". All four are just states of mind with no physical attribution.

On the other hand, if you're a theist, then your beliefs go way beyond simply a singular state of mind. You accept the substantive existence of gods and angels, heaven and hell, miracles and prayer, omnipotence and omniscience, resurrection and parthenogenesis etc.

Finally, you can be a "practicing" theist, but you cannot be a practicing atheist; there's nothing to practice. No god-figure; no temples of worship; no wise men (priests/preachers/rabbis); no holy book; no dogma; no periodic gatherings or ceremonies (baptism/eucharist/liturgies); no symbolic artifacts etc.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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