A formal Christian does not believe his god can be perfect
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25-08-2016, 10:48 AM
RE: A formal Christian does not believe his god can be perfect
(23-08-2016 12:03 AM)KerimF Wrote:  
(19-08-2016 08:25 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  Being smarter than you it's nothing to be proud about if one left kindergarten behind.



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At least you predicted something (that my next thread had to be stupid) and it happened... to you in the least.

Kerim
Predicting that thread made by you will be stupid is akin to "predicting" that sun will rise tomorrow.

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The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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25-08-2016, 11:10 AM
RE: A formal Christian does not believe his god can be perfect
(25-08-2016 02:02 AM)KerimF Wrote:  
(23-08-2016 07:12 AM)Aliza Wrote:  Oh, but it's ultimately my fault for being 'unskilled'. I see. Well, because I'm slow, can you point to the part of your original post where you alluded to this subtle message? Just show me what it was that you said and why a reasonable person should have interpreted it differently.

Please, we are not in a fight here but if you insist we are... you won Thumbsup

Kerim

I don't need to engage in a battle with you. You made an error in your original post . -One that I found to be quite understandable. I make errors and oversights all the time, no big deal. But instead of just admitting that you accidentally forgot to add a qualifier regarding your intended audience, you blamed us for failing to read your mind. That's weird.
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26-08-2016, 06:51 AM
RE: A formal Christian does not believe his god can be perfect
(23-08-2016 11:30 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  I wonder if Kerim "gets" any of this, or anything at all.

My own view of this issue is that we in the West are sleepwalking into a very dangerous situation and it's playing itself out almost daily around the world.

I think there was some kind of sense that if we in the West supported groups like the Muslim Brotherhood and the Turkish Gulenist movement and other Islamic groups, then we would be ok.

The reasoning seems to me to go along the lines that, first, all region is peaceful. After all, Christains are always talking about "love they neighbour" etc. So, we think, religions must be good and the problem is that too many people are losing their religion and, surely, if we enlist the help of religious groups, the world will be a better place.

What we don't understand is that fundamentalist Christianity and Islam are complete opposites of each other. Fundamentalist Christians go back to the New Testament and read "do unto others" and "blessed are the meek" and similar exhortations and the "goodness" of it all sends them into raptures and they then go around trying to get people to love each other.

Fundamentalist Muslims go back to the Koran which tells them that after Ramadan, they should kill non-believers who aren't prepared to pay a tax or convert, and to kill other people who don't want to continue following this belief system. It tells them to kill homosexuals and to cut off people's hands and limbs for committing thefts out of poverty.

With the declining interest and appreciation of history in favor of watching "Jersey Shores", people now don't understand that religious freedoms were fought for in order to stop religion suppressing free thought of individuals. Freedom of religion was not intended to protect religions which suppress free thought altogether.

I wonder if Kerim "gets" any of this, or anything at all.

The one saving grace of all this is the internet and the fact that individuals can now get access to different ideas and cultures without their Immam breathing down their necks, and that the little "prayer rooms" in airports and other public buildings are pretty much empty here. Recently, a lady lawyer took five Mosques go court got an injunction against them from blasting out the call to prayer at 5 am every morning because it was making her too tired to work.

I was standing talking to a care mechanic the other day and the call to prayer came on over a loudspeaker (not even attached to a Mosque). We couldn't hear each other speak and he rolled his eyes in disgust. You tune it out, it's like white noise, no one goes to Mosque unless they are a demented male teenager with a grudge and nothing else to do. They take off their shoes, wander into a bare, stark, empty building and bend over several times while someone chants something repetetively, or doesn't. Either way, they then leave and think they are ok with Allah, for some reason. Like I say, it's like children and Santa and maybe they are thinking of the seventy two wide eyed virgins they're going to get in heaven. Who knows, who cares... It's a form of mental illness.

Please don't worry, Kerim (67 years) got already all what you kindly presented so far and much more.

Come to the south of Syria and you will see clearly how the fanatic radical Jewish army and the fanatic radical Islamist groups are working together, like real good brothers do, against the Syrian people. And this is natural, because the today's Israel state (created in year 1948) and Al-Qaeda state (known lately as ISIS) have the same creators, hence the same big earthly bosses.
In brief, anytime you see a fanatic radical believer (even Christian), you can be sure he is serving, with or without his knowledge, the American Dream; I mean the Dream of the American Top Decision-Makers, not of the American people of course.

We are just at the beginning of the World Terror War that was introduced with a great success in front of the entire world on 9/11/2001. This needed sacrificing just a few thousands of American citizens in NYC to replace 'Communism' with 'Terror of Islam' (thanks to the CIA Qaeda to cover up this perfect crime). Then Bush junior had to sacrifice more thousands among his American troops in Iraq between year 2003 and 2010. During this period, about half a million kids were raised in training bases (with the knowledge of all intelligences, including the Russian one) to play, when adults, the today's Islamist terrorists in the international endless series 'War on Terror'.

By the way, if you look at Al-Qaeda' flag (it is the same for any armed Islamist group), you will surely see on it the common signature that the CIA imposed on all its 9/11 mercenaries (lately by millions after 15 years... though most of them are in sleep mode now and will be activated in the coming episodes of the War on Terror series; in Europe... China... etc.). This new common signature was never used by today's Muslims in the world. It says (written vertically in a white circle using 3 Arabic words): "Allah is the Messenger of Mohammad". Yes, it is a clear blasphemy against Allah, Islam and Muslims Wink But who cares Big Grin The powerful/rich people (Muslim or not) get profits from spreading terror and the common ones (the main targets of the modern Terror) have no voice even in America; unless barking, as I do here, may have any effect to stop the long World Terror War against civilians Big Grin

Kerim

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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26-08-2016, 07:20 AM
RE: A formal Christian does not believe his god can be perfect
(25-08-2016 11:10 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(25-08-2016 02:02 AM)KerimF Wrote:  Please, we are not in a fight here but if you insist we are... you won Thumbsup

Kerim

I don't need to engage in a battle with you. You made an error in your original post . -One that I found to be quite understandable. I make errors and oversights all the time, no big deal. But instead of just admitting that you accidentally forgot to add a qualifier regarding your intended audience, you blamed us for failing to read your mind. That's weird.

Okay... I am sorry.

For instance, I bet the word 'sorry' has a great magical effect in America (I am not sure about other countries).

Bush junior sent his troops to Iraq based on a lie (actually he played very well the naïve ignorant kid for many months). But since he was a US president (hence, he is an American living in America), the American people closed the case after hearing his deep 'sorry'. Is this weird? Drinking Beverage

Anyway, please don't hesitate to correct me anytime I am wrong. Although we are brought into life on the same planet, we have no choice but seeing the world from different angles. But our minds are made to calibrate these different views into one global one (but among free independent persons only, of course).

Kerim

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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26-08-2016, 07:26 AM
RE: A formal Christian does not believe his god can be perfect
(25-08-2016 10:48 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(23-08-2016 12:03 AM)KerimF Wrote:  At least you predicted something (that my next thread had to be stupid) and it happened... to you in the least.

Kerim
Predicting that thread made by you will be stupid is akin to "predicting" that sun will rise tomorrow.

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You are right.

And no one can deny that you are real brave for bearing my stupidity for that long. Thank you.

Kerim

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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26-08-2016, 07:59 AM
RE: A formal Christian does not believe his god can be perfect
(25-08-2016 05:19 AM)SYZ Wrote:  
Quote:Otherwise, an atheist should also have his wise men (for example, scientists/scholars approved by a well known organization in the least) and his holy articles that are written by his trusted thinkers also working for (or supervised by) a well known agency or system.

I'm a lifelong atheist, and I have—and have never had—any of these attributes you assign to atheists. I have no belief in any "wise men" as per the biblical Magi; rather, I accept the tenets of 21st-century science, and the empirical evidence scientists produce to support those tenets—rather than the wishful thinking or fantasies promoted by so-called, ancient "wise" men.

I met many people who believe blindly anything they may hear as being of science and mainly if it is proven or approved by scientists (anonymous or not, presented on TV, books, articles... etc.).

But, to me in the least, as the powerful/rich men were always able spreading big lies in the name of supernatural beings, they are also able doing the same in the name of science, anytime necessary.

But as long you are happy with what you got from all scientists presented to the world, I have no reason to disturb your happiness.

Kerim

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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26-08-2016, 08:10 AM
RE: A formal Christian does not believe his god can be perfect
(25-08-2016 05:19 AM)SYZ Wrote:  
Quote:Finally, do you mean that all atheists have no flag for which they are ready to risk their life and even die?
Yes.

Thank you for this special information of which I had no idea till now.

This is the first time, I hear that, in any national army in the world, there is no atheist soldiers and/or officers.
Isn't the meaning of your 'Yes' here?

Kerim

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
26-08-2016, 08:31 AM
RE: A formal Christian does not believe his god can be perfect
(25-08-2016 05:19 AM)SYZ Wrote:  
(25-08-2016 12:43 AM)KerimF Wrote:  On my side, I have no man who is wiser than me; at best, a man could be as wise as I am.
In this case, I'm sorry, but you're suffering from delusions of grandeur.

Well, if you think you are wiser than me then it is you who are suffering from delusions of grandeur.

But if your confusion leads you to believe that you are less wise than I am, it is not my fault I guess. On my side, I assume you are as wise as I am.

Now, if you believe that some people were brought into life to become wiser than you (hence deserve being followed blindly by you) about things related even to your own life, please don't blame theists for doing the same. In this case, while, to you, the wise men are the scientists, they are the religious scientists, scholars and historians to 'formal' theists.

Kerim

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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26-08-2016, 08:55 AM
RE: A formal Christian does not believe his god can be perfect
(25-08-2016 05:19 AM)SYZ Wrote:  
(25-08-2016 12:43 AM)KerimF Wrote:  I have doubts about the information given by 'any' reference said scientific or else. So I can't accept and add an idea (which should be useful in my life) to my set of knowledge till it passes the processes of my logical reasoning.

So as I read this, I understand that you do not accept the tenets of modern science, or in fact the claims of any other person—whether scientists or not. Further, it shows that you're either willfully and unreasonably ignoring the claims of people far better educated in the sciences than you, or you're simply a pompous, egotistical ignoramus. And I don't think it's the latter.

I am sorry for not being clear.
Did I say "I don't accept the tenets of modern science..."?!
Is it really a crime, to you in the least, that a tenet has to pass the processes of one's logical reasoning in order to be accepted by a person?

Sorry, if I believed 'blindly' everything I heard about electronics, I couldn't gain my daily bread (a small farm, house, car... etc.) by running my small private business for designing and selling various controller boards, for about 35 years.

But if a man's work doesn't need having exact scientific ideas, he can believe whatever is said as being of science and exactly as it is presented.

Kerim

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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26-08-2016, 09:30 AM
RE: A formal Christian does not believe his god can be perfect
(25-08-2016 07:14 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  
(25-08-2016 12:43 AM)KerimF Wrote:  On my side, I have no man who is wiser than me; at best, a man could be as wise as I am.

I have doubts about the information given by 'any' reference said scientific or else. So I can't accept and add an idea (which should be useful in my life) to my set of knowledge till it passes the processes of my logical reasoning.

Kerim

So, since you dont accept the opinion of experts (scientists) on any given subject,
please, oh wise man
what s your opinion about extraterrestrial life? I am talking about your skills in cosmology here. Do do have studied cosmology to give me an answer, correct?
And if some scientists are in disagreement with you on this, please explain why they are all wrong. dont hesitate to write long elaborate reviews, i will take time to read them.

Testing your skills in paleonthology: Did dinosaurs have feathers? What do you think? Regarding some of them there was even the question of the colour of their feathers. What do you think was the colour of their feathers? And why of course.

Vaccination: There is a big discussion in the US public about vaccination. What is your personal opinion as a qualified evolutionary biologist about this issue? Please explain the evolutionary background to me oh wise man

Ok, how about your skills in meterology/climate? What do you think of global warming, do you think its is true or a conspiracy? How does climate work anyway, can you explain it to me please oh wise man?

What about sending probes to newly discovered exoplantes around stars. Do you think there is life on Europa, Enceladus or Alpha Centauri? Please tell me, oh wise man.

You are qualified to have an opinion on all these scientific subjects, arent you, oh wise man?

Being wise is like being perfect... both are relative matters as everything else in the universe.

This explains why each person is given a brilliant brain so he can be wise of what he is interested in and therefore being perfect of what he is supposed to be.

So instead of looking for the existence of an extra-terrestrial life, I was interested in discovering the 'real' terrestrial life instead Wink

And instead of searching about dinosaurs, I preferred observing the present living things, mainly the human beings among whom I have to live Wink

About medical discussions (as vaccination, you mentioned), I had to explore a much more important subject which could be titled 'the real story behind worldwide propaganda of AIDS'.

Finally, as it is good for you to be wise about things you are interested in (please don't tell me you don't have a healthy human brain), I did my best to have all the knowledge that interests me and is useful in my daily life.
Yes, I don't like interfering in other's life. After all, sane mature persons have all the necessary tools... as I have, if not more Wink

Kerim

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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