A future Pastor and Christian Apologist
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22-08-2012, 11:48 AM
RE: A future Pastor and Christian Apologist
(22-08-2012 11:40 AM)cufflink Wrote:  
(22-08-2012 10:26 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Can't we just set up a "protocol" for visiting deists/theists ?
Like kind of automate the procedure ?
Day 1...bla bla bla. sign in and state how they are "unique".
Day 2 ............
Day 3 ............ etc etc.

If they are still here, after they have refuted all the usual stuff, and "agreed" they understand certain basics, then they can be "routed" to a live atheist, and "assigned", if they wish further deprogramming. I for one, am getting really sick of acting as wet-nurse to every nooby questioner who shows up, with not one ounce of knowledge of science/philosophy/theology/scripture/ancient history, especially these wanna-be pastor types who think they're gonna test out their "skills" on us. I mean, I've only been here a year, and how many is this ?
Like a trillion ?

Here's an idea: What if we made this thread a sticky, retitled something like, "Newly arrived theists: Please read." Then when the next TR shows up, we could encourage him or her to examine the thread to see the lay of the land and the kinds of discussions we've had with their cronies. Chances are they'd discover they have nothing new to add to what's already been said--and answered. Might save us a lot of effort and redundancy.

Where's the fun in that?

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22-08-2012, 11:48 AM
RE: A future Pastor and Christian Apologist
(22-08-2012 09:40 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Forcing submission isn't what Peter is saying here.

Submission to the husband would be done in joy because the husband understands, cares for, and loves his wife. He wants her to be happy and joyful and all she wants and needs. The husband gives love and understanding in return of respect and submission.

Husbands and wives acting Christ-like have done this for centuries.

This is utter BS. The one who knows less about the issue should submit to the decision of the other one. This will vary from issue to issue. And even then, submission is the wrong word, learning the facts that make a good decision in that case is what it's all about. Then two people grow and make good decisions as a unit.

Your "guidelines for life" stem from a time when women were purposefully kept stupid and men weren't all that smart either.

A good marriage is based on two people supporting each other's endeavors in life. Nobody submits, everyone grows.

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22-08-2012, 11:51 AM
RE: Attention: TrueReason
(22-08-2012 10:34 AM)Chas Wrote:  I (and others) have read the Bible and works by Craig and others. I'm sure you have, too.
Do us the courtesy, and yourself the honor, of reading Hitchens, Dawkins, Stenger, Krauss, Dennett, Ehrman, et al.
Until then, we can't really talk usefully because you lack the concepts and vocabulary.

It doesn't count that you read what Craig (or others) say about other authors, you have to read them yourself.

This is so very key to understanding the frustration we feel as atheists when a theist comes here. It's almost a shock to me when theists are surprised at the amount the average atheist know about the bible. It's like TP has come here expecting to teach a bunch of uneducated people what the bible is all about. And then, when it's discovered that we know plenty, there's not even any consideration of the theist reading material that supports our side of the spectrum.

TP, myself and others abandon this thread not because it is too much for us, but because these arguments you present are old, mundane, and thoroughly refuted. Refuting them again is like listening to a broken record, and trying to sing along. No thanks.

I don't think you need to change what you believe. If it works for you, fine, so long as you keep it to yourself and people who are interested in learning more. But if you want to have a discussion with atheists, perhaps you could do just a fraction of the research that the bulk of us have done on your beliefs. That way, when we don't even bother to argue about silly ideas like "atheists thing something comes from nothing! That's un-possible! Stupid heathens!" you'll understand that it's not defeat, it's exhaustion from explaining it a hundred times.

In the end, we've been respectful enough to try and understand your stance before arguing that it's wrong. Have the courtesy to do the same. Perhaps then you'll understand why statements that claim things like "atheists world view" can be so offensive to us. You see, the only part of our world view that is a constant among us is that we don't believe in god. What we DO believe is unique to the individual. Try to understand why we don't believe in god instead of imposing what you think we do believe upon us.

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22-08-2012, 11:52 AM (This post was last modified: 22-08-2012 11:57 AM by ddrew.)
RE: A future Pastor and Christian Apologist
What did you all do scare the poor fella away already? Heck I was nice to the new guy for a change.

You should all be ashamed of yerselves!
Not even had a chance to have a drink with him... oh wait.. he was under 21 he cried.. didnt' have a chance to have a milk shake with him..
crap.. poor choice of words.. nevermind!!

nothing to see here!

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -- Voltaire
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22-08-2012, 11:53 AM
RE: A future Pastor and Christian Apologist
(22-08-2012 11:40 AM)cufflink Wrote:  Here's an idea: What if we made this thread a sticky, retitled something like, "Newly arrived theists: Please read." Then when the next TR shows up, we could encourage him or her to examine the thread to see the lay of the land and the kinds of discussions we've had with their cronies. Chances are they'd discover they have nothing new to add to what's already been said--and answered. Might save us a lot of effort and redundancy.
I wholeheartedly agree with that. If I may add my own suggestion, I think it should be something along the lines of a compilation of frequently used arguments for theism, followed by the respective rebuttal. If they still think they can contribute something new to the discussion after that, they should be free to do so. It gets rather tiring to hear the same old arguments over and over again. I can't believe people still use the cosmological argument.

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22-08-2012, 12:02 PM
RE: A future Pastor and Christian Apologist
(22-08-2012 09:40 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Husbands and wives acting Christ-like have done this for centuries.

Ooh... I missed that part of the new testerone testament. Blink Where is it that Jesus had a wife or even sex?


Just point me to the juicy parts - I haven't got all day, I gotta do laundry. Dodgy

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22-08-2012, 12:07 PM
RE: A future Pastor and Christian Apologist
I was actually kidding. No one forces me to say anything. Most people just wisely stay out of our theological arguments, like the old ST Ranger thing. I might set up a thread tho, with the usual resources, and drop in a link to it, once in a while, just so they know we've "been there, done that". Like everything TR said is straight out of a canned Craig lecture.

I do get the same feeling however, as I did when a few summers ago, my dad got me a job at a rehab center. There was a kid with a diving accident, (cervical fracture), back injury. He ended up a quad. After weeks and weeks of getiing him to the point he could go home, I remember the day he left, another one came in ... and I thought, "crap, I can't do this .. just when you get one done, there is another one". The people that actually DO do that for a living are real heros.

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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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22-08-2012, 12:10 PM
RE: A future Pastor and Christian Apologist
(22-08-2012 12:07 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  ... and I thought, "crap, I can't do this .. just when you get one done, there is another one". The people that actually DO do that for a living are real heros.

No truer words.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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22-08-2012, 12:14 PM
RE: A future Pastor and Christian Apologist
(22-08-2012 12:02 PM)kim Wrote:  
(22-08-2012 09:40 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Husbands and wives acting Christ-like have done this for centuries.

Ooh... I missed that part of the new testerone testament. Blink Where is it that Jesus had a wife or even sex?


Just point me to the juicy parts - I haven't got all day, I gotta do laundry. Dodgy

I think some pussy woulda done Jesus some good.. poor fella never enjoyed the fruits in life! Too busy punishing fig trees...

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -- Voltaire
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22-08-2012, 12:27 PM
RE: A future Pastor and Christian Apologist
Well that was quicker than I expected.


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