A future Pastor and Christian Apologist
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22-08-2012, 05:41 PM
RE: A future Pastor and Christian Apologist
... TR, still hoping you're gonna stick around. There's a lot of people piling on at the moment, but you asked for it Wink

I suggest actually watch some of the videos that people linked. Ignore the language and pick apart what people are saying to you.

I'm worried that you'll just see us all piling in and think "these guys are all just stupid and aggressive, all they want to do is laugh at me". Well, there's an element of that. Like I said, you're too damn certain. You remind us of the worst, the reasons, the kinds of people we left religion to get away from (or me at least).

BUT, people are giving you genuine thoughts to chew over, hidden among the sarcastic comments and kerfuffle about how horrible your God is. *Find those nuggets*. If you do, your time here was well spent. If not... well, I guess one more slightly deranged guy telling others dumb enough to let him what's right and wrong in their lives won't make a hell of a difference.
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22-08-2012, 05:49 PM
RE: A future Pastor and Christian Apologist
(22-08-2012 05:41 PM)morondog Wrote:  ... TR, still hoping you're gonna stick around. There's a lot of people piling on at the moment, but you asked for it Wink

I suggest actually watch some of the videos that people linked. Ignore the language and pick apart what people are saying to you.

I'm worried that you'll just see us all piling in and think "these guys are all just stupid and aggressive, all they want to do is laugh at me". Well, there's an element of that. Like I said, you're too damn certain. You remind us of the worst, the reasons, the kinds of people we left religion to get away from (or me at least).

BUT, people are giving you genuine thoughts to chew over, hidden among the sarcastic comments and kerfuffle about how horrible your God is. *Find those nuggets*. If you do, your time here was well spent. If not... well, I guess one more slightly deranged guy telling others dumb enough to let him what's right and wrong in their lives won't make a hell of a difference.

B... But I do want to laugh, I came to this thread expecting some of those deity-damned lulz of which I crave!

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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22-08-2012, 05:51 PM
RE: A future Pastor and Christian Apologist
(22-08-2012 05:49 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(22-08-2012 05:41 PM)morondog Wrote:  ... TR, still hoping you're gonna stick around. There's a lot of people piling on at the moment, but you asked for it Wink

I suggest actually watch some of the videos that people linked. Ignore the language and pick apart what people are saying to you.

I'm worried that you'll just see us all piling in and think "these guys are all just stupid and aggressive, all they want to do is laugh at me". Well, there's an element of that. Like I said, you're too damn certain. You remind us of the worst, the reasons, the kinds of people we left religion to get away from (or me at least).

BUT, people are giving you genuine thoughts to chew over, hidden among the sarcastic comments and kerfuffle about how horrible your God is. *Find those nuggets*. If you do, your time here was well spent. If not... well, I guess one more slightly deranged guy telling others dumb enough to let him what's right and wrong in their lives won't make a hell of a difference.

B... But I do want to laugh, I came to this thread expecting some of those deity-damned lulz of which I crave!

Carry on, it's par for the course. My post is addressed to TR to explain the chaos, not to say that the chaos is bad. Apologies if not clear Tongue
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22-08-2012, 06:06 PM
RE: A future Pastor and Christian Apologist
(22-08-2012 09:40 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(22-08-2012 09:28 AM)DLJ Wrote:  In light of which, it is very easy to see where the Quran stole its morality.

Forcing submission isn't what Peter is saying here.

Submission to the husband would be done in joy because the husband understands, cares for, and loves his wife. He wants her to be happy and joyful and all she wants and needs. The husband gives love and understanding in return of respect and submission.

Husbands and wives acting Christ-like have done this for centuries.

Where did I say "forcing submission"?
My Malaysian colleagues argue that their interpretation of the Quran (which, don't forget is based on the bible and accepts JC as a phrophet), their long understood tradition and their current practice is exactly as you state above.

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22-08-2012, 06:06 PM
RE: A future Pastor and Christian Apologist
(22-08-2012 01:26 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  
Quote:There must be something outside of this universe (not in the spatial sense of the word) that caused the universe to come into existence.
How do you know that?

Quote:Because the physical realm could not have caused itself. It did not exist and so it could not have caused anything.
How do you know that?

It's far too time consuming to go through all your posts and ask the same question over and over again, so I won't . The point is you make so many assumptions, when the rest of us accept that we just don't know. Not knowing doesn't explain god. It just means we don't know! It doesn't mean there is no explanation, it just means we don't know the explanation. Making one up is just a waste.

Dammit! Didn't I say I was bailing on this thread?

I'm going to requote starky here since our new theist friend seems to keep dodging this question which we have asked page after page after page.

Let me put it in a way that maybe you can see it and answer it. And if you still avoid it, we'll know you're not interested in getting to the root of things.

HOW DO YOU KNOW?
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22-08-2012, 07:09 PM
RE: A future Pastor and Christian Apologist
(21-08-2012 10:10 PM)TrueReason Wrote:  
(21-08-2012 07:50 PM)SomeOne Wrote:  I have some questions.

knowing that:

  1. God is all-knowing, he knows past present and future
  2. God is all-mighty/powerful
  3. God is perfect

Before creating Adam and Eve he knew they will sin?

If he created us as imperfect beings, Why did he make the prohibition of eating from that apple tree (eventually had to happen that they eated from it)?

Knowing the imperfections he imposed on us, knowing they will fail to keep away from the tree, he even allowed the devil to motivate them to eat the forbidden fruit. Why?

Why the hell should I be responsible from what someone else did?
God created humans despite the fact that he knew they would fall, their free will would result ultimate good which is a relationship with good. God didn't want robots. He wanted autonomous agents to be in relation with. That involved allowing for the possibility that man would fall. God valued this choice so much that he even allowed Satan to tempt them. He wanted them to really choose him, and not have it be simply some default function.

Why are you responsible?Well, every action has it consequences. Choices made by our parents, and even by ancestors from previous generations have an effect on us today. As the representatives of mankind, Adam and Eve chose to rebel against God, and thus they brought on the curse. Individually we all choose to rebel against. Therefore there is a individual and corporate responsibility for our rebellion.

If you don't accept the presuppositions of Christian belief, it will be difficult to accept this explanation. I'm assuming you don't even believe in God, so it would be extremely difficult, but that's the explanation.
You make God sound like a mad inventor who wanted his kids to play with a chain saws, that he invented, in order to teach the survivors to make chain saws of their own.Evil_monster
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22-08-2012, 08:50 PM
RE: A future Pastor and Christian Apologist
(22-08-2012 07:09 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  
(21-08-2012 10:10 PM)TrueReason Wrote:  God created humans despite the fact that he knew they would fall, their free will would result ultimate good which is a relationship with good. God didn't want robots. He wanted autonomous agents to be in relation with. That involved allowing for the possibility that man would fall. God valued this choice so much that he even allowed Satan to tempt them. He wanted them to really choose him, and not have it be simply some default function.

Why are you responsible?Well, every action has it consequences. Choices made by our parents, and even by ancestors from previous generations have an effect on us today. As the representatives of mankind, Adam and Eve chose to rebel against God, and thus they brought on the curse. Individually we all choose to rebel against. Therefore there is a individual and corporate responsibility for our rebellion.

If you don't accept the presuppositions of Christian belief, it will be difficult to accept this explanation. I'm assuming you don't even believe in God, so it would be extremely difficult, but that's the explanation.
You make God sound like a mad inventor who wanted his kids to play with a chain saws, that he invented, in order to teach the survivors to make chain saws of their own.Evil_monster

Bu.. But that can't be! That makes god sound awesome!

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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22-08-2012, 10:13 PM
RE: A future Pastor and Christian Apologist
(21-08-2012 10:00 PM)TrueReason Wrote:  Trying to describe God and how he operates with physical laws and properties is like trying to weigh a chicken with ruler. The measurements are simply not the same.

Know how to weigh a chicken with a ruler? Use a fulcrum. Tongue

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22-08-2012, 11:36 PM
RE: A future Pastor and Christian Apologist
(22-08-2012 10:13 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(21-08-2012 10:00 PM)TrueReason Wrote:  Trying to describe God and how he operates with physical laws and properties is like trying to weigh a chicken with ruler. The measurements are simply not the same.

Know how to weigh a chicken with a ruler? Use a fulcrum. Tongue

Oh come on. You have to know where you're about to see this again very soon. Evil_monster

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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23-08-2012, 07:02 AM
RE: A future Pastor and Christian Apologist
(22-08-2012 09:40 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(22-08-2012 09:28 AM)DLJ Wrote:  In light of which, it is very easy to see where the Quran stole its morality.

Forcing submission isn't what Peter is saying here.

Submission to the husband would be done in joy because the husband understands, cares for, and loves his wife. He wants her to be happy and joyful and all she wants and needs. The husband gives love and understanding in return of respect and submission.

Husbands and wives acting Christ-like have done this for centuries.

Sorry people, i am stuck between the pages.
Are we talking about a relationship between female and male, or is this a tutorial for a bondage-session?

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